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by fizzyfizz 2065 days ago
I appreciate what Slava has written here. But I noticed something odd about his recommendation.

He noticed that doctors can get through the bullshit because they have contact with patients. It's anecdotal of course, but it seems common in caring professions. Why else would anyone be an underpaid grade school teacher?

But Slava doesn't come up with an exact parallel for programmers. He suggests studying the history of technology, and reacquainting oneself with the sheer fun of building things. These are maybe good, but he doesn't seem to be telling a story of how he recovered from disillusionment. At best he's speculating that these are things that might work. I suspect they won't, because they miss something important.

Nobody is sincerely thanking us for doing these things.

Unlike doctors and grade school teachers, if programmers had more contact with end users, they'd probably get burned out faster. The things we build rarely make anyone happier.

There are ways you can justify the work - creative destruction ideology, or maybe you can delude yourself into thinking that mashing together APIs is somehow getting the world closer to some better future. And maybe they are even right.

But are people really meant to work this abstractly? This detached from outcomes? There's nothing to propel you through the bullshit.

6 comments

> Unlike doctors and grade school teachers, if programmers had more contact with end users, they'd probably get burned out faster. The things we build rarely make anyone happier.

The one time that this was not the case was a wonderful time in my career. I worked on software for photographers who worked in a studio down the hall from my office. They’d stop by in the morning with a suggestion or bug and I’d walk over at lunch with a solution.

One idea from “agile” that has resonated with me is that programmers should work closely with their customers. The most miserable projects have multiple layers of PMs refracting the idea away into nothingness.

> Unlike doctors and grade school teachers, if programmers had more contact with end users, they'd probably get burned out faster.

Depends on the business and users, but in many cases I agree with you. But I didn't mean to extend the doctor analogy to individual people. Personally, I'm very slightly aspy. I didn't get into computers to help people, I got into it because I loved programming, science, and tech. Unlike doctors, I don't need to see my work save people's lives. I'm in it for a totally different reason.

Absolutely - in an ideal world, my software would have no users at all!
>Absolutely - in an ideal world, my software would have no users at all!

TIL that I live in an ideal world.

I agree that meeting with users will only make people burn out faster.

I mean most web developers nowadays work in a glorified version of manipulating users, spying on them, and / or shoving ads into their face.

I've yet to meet anyone who would feel happy to meet the person that sells them out to advertisers online. I'm sure there are users that love all of their YouTube recommendations and that check their Facebook feed hourly. But those are probably the people that make you question humanity when you meet them...

I made peace with this another way, took a remote job so that I have time for pursuits that I enjoy - working out, racquetball, reading, cooking, traveling and being there for my kids.

You can look for meaning elsewhere, not all professions are fulfilling, and yes medicine is one of the few professions where there is a direct tangible correlation between effort and reward. You see your patients getting better.

But it's endlessly taxing to be a good doctor, you can't really have much of a life if you are truly a good doctor.

My parents were doctors, ran a hospital and really passionate ones at that, but they had no time for anything else. So if you are dedicated like that more power to you. On the flip-side I've seen more doctors who were into it only for the money than ones who were true to the Hippocratic Oath.

Try working for non-profits that understand the importance of data, automation, design work. The field has a shortage of good data folk, and the ratio of LoC:societal impact can be enough to push you through the bullshit. Just, you'll have to accept lower pay.
this is the kind of comment i have been making in much less eloquent terms on hn for a couple years. thank you for putting it well. im somewhat inspired by the comments in this thread- i dont think ive seem so many people owning up to this on here before.