[jlokier]

> have you tried using WhatsApp without the Contacts permission?

Yes, that's how I use WhatsApp. It sucks because all I see is conversations and calls from phone numbers without names.

But I don't trust WhatsApp enough to share my whole contacts list with them.

I would be happy to grant permission for individual number-name associations to be visible to WhatsApp, if that was possible. It's the contacts list as a whole I'm not willing to share; the people I'm actually talking with on it would be fine.

But no, we can't have sensible things like that.

Showing the numbers is very silly, because WhatsApp knows the name of every person I'm talking with. It has their name from the person at other end! But no, it has to use the Dark Pattern(tm) of showing numbers to pressure me into sharing all my contacts, which it doesn't actually need.

[zbuf]

> But I don't trust WhatsApp enough to share my whole contacts list with them.

Trouble is, you don't have to. Your friends have already shared /their/ contact lists.

You're already a node in the network, even if you've never logged in.

[jlokier]

There may be a node. But even so, it is a myth that the social networks know everything from other people's shared information.

WhatsApp does not know which people/entities I have in my contacts list.

That cannot be deduced from other ordinary people's lists.

It is a two-sided issue. On the one side: We should understand that we can't completely hide our personal information because other people share it without our consent, and that we should all be more careful what we share because it can harm other people, and is without their consent.

But on the other side: There is still value in limiting what we share about ourselves and others, because what other people share is limited and does not produce as complete a picture as when we add more to it ourselves.

So, WhatsApp knows about specific contacts other people have entered which include me, but it doesn't know what's on my full list. There are many things which can be estimated from my contacts list which I don't want to share and can't be deduced from other people's contact lists:

- Which banks I bank with.

- Which credit cards I have.

- Which recruiters I've been talking with.

- Which prospective companies I've talked with about getting a job.

- Which clients I'm doing business with or have done.

- Which taxi firms I use.

- Which restaurants I know well enough to have in my list.

- Which lenders I'm borrowing from.

- Which debt collectors I'm talking or not talking with.

- Which people I have a secret affair with, who are smart enough not to share their contacts list.

- Which journalists I'm in touch with, who are smart enough not to share their contacts list.

- Who I'm organising protests against the state with, who are smart enough not to share their contacts list.

- Who I know well enough to have not just their number but also their email address and other contacts, home address, notes etc.

- Which other communication applications I'm using if those store contacts in the list.

As well as the number of each of the above, to suggest which aspects of my life to target for advertising, policing, or general intimidation and election manipulation.

[2Gkashmiri]

whoa. this is one reason i am STILL NOT ON WHATSAPP..... seriously.

this comes from back when truecaller was introduced and i had an iphone. saw permission to access contacts. never used the app, even today. same for whatsapp or facebook. call me paranoid, but i don't want being "linked". same reason i dont have a google account and even though i have been using an android device for the past 2 years, there is no account and i use something like aurora store to get apps. works decent enough

[jlokier]

I have a "junk" Google account on my phone. It's not linked to anything except my phone. I don't even know the account name.

It means I can't use in-app payments, and will never pay for an app, but at least I can download essential (to me) apps like banking apps from the Play store.

[2Gkashmiri]

oh. why dont you try aurora store? that app allows you to download actual play store apps which is what i use. it uses anonymous google accounts to login and give you access.

[jlokier]

Thanks! I don't know if I will, because I'm loathe to mess with something so life-critical that is working, but I appreciate the pointer.