[jariel]

"There are lots of things out there that have little to no intrinsic value (like currency)"

??? Most currencies are backed by something. USD's are backed by TBills, Euros are backed by some kind of asset.

"There's lots of things with fundamentally no intrinsic value " like what?

Gold and Diamonds people wear as jewelry, and they have other uses.

Platinum, were it plentiful, means we might have all shifted to fuel cells 2 decades ago.

Gold probably has an inflated price due to it's historical value as 'money' - but outside of that, there's basically nothing that people put significant amounts of money in without some kind of intrinsic value.

[CydeWeys]

> ??? Most currencies are backed by something. USD's are backed by TBills, Euros are backed by some kind of asset.

Oh yeah? And what assets are these exactly? It sounds to me like you're just describing things without intrinsic value that are "backed" by other things without intrinsic value. There is no economist that would tell you that government currencies or bonds have "intrinsic value"; they're just paper. Their value can go entirely to zero (and this has happened many times in the past).

> "There's lots of things with fundamentally no intrinsic value " like what?

Anything collectible has no inherent value. Think baseball cards, art, whatever. They're worth money only because they're rare and people are willing to pay big for them. But the actual intrinsic value of the materials in a rare painting worth hundreds of millions of dollars might be a few bucks at best.

And yes, precious metals do have intrinsic value as defined by economists. Currency doesn't.

[jariel]

"There is no economist that would tell you that government currencies or bonds have "intrinsic value"; they're just paper."

Ok then, I'll trade you any Government Bonds you might have (aka 'paper') for let's say, $100? I mean, worth more than paper, right?

Why do people have such difficulty grasping the abstraction of credit? And that it has value?

The entire system is based on credit - which is more intangible that 'bushels of wheat' or 'shiny rocks' but frankly it's not that hard to grasp.

The bonds are not 'paper' they are a 'promise to provide some value' - and most people take TBills at at least face value because the US Gov tends to honour the contract.

A currency based on a shiny rock has only one, small possible advantage, in that there is essentially a fixed supply of said rocks, and that it cannot be debased, however, this is in most ways not an advantage i.e. it precludes the possibility of any monetary policy.

Ergo we have systems of credit, currency based on that, and a whole bunch of rules around it.

"But the actual intrinsic value of the materials in a rare painting worth hundreds of millions of dollars might be a few bucks at best."

No, when things are configured in a certain way, they have value more than the constituent parts. A 'Tractor' is worth more than the 'Metal' it is made from. 'Art' is something that people like to look at beyond it's constituent bits of paper and dyes.

Yes, it's abstract, but it's not hard to grasp.

[CydeWeys]

You seem to be have a very fundamental misunderstanding here that "no intrinsic value" is the same thing as "worthless". You are misusing very basic economics terms. Currencies that aren't literally made out of precious metals are the textbook example used in economics texts to introduce the idea of things that lack intrinsic value.

[jariel]

You seem to a total and fundamental misunderstanding of what value is, and therefore, a misunderstanding of the entire field of economics.

[CydeWeys]

Please provide reputable economics sources saying that USD has intrinsic value.

[reportgunner]

Lets say you are stuck in a foreign country, you have no money and you are hungry. You meet a person who barely speaks your language:

a. you whip out a golden coin (intrinsic value) and they will give you food.

b. you whip out a Government Bond (no intrinsic value) and they will look at you like you are stupid because they have no idea what a Government Bond is