[mrgordon]

Employment allows people to afford things. Also when you live in a place with $8/hour minimum wage you quickly realize that nothing is affordable for most of the service industry workers. $320 per week before taxes with no stock options or healthcare and you think the basic affordability is better in Florida than California? What are they going to buy things with?

Florida is great if you made money elsewhere and want to come spend it in a low tax state where people move to retire to the suburbs and die. If you’re actually working then you realize there is no major industry outside of things like tourism which leads to a lot of low paying dead end jobs.

[manigandham]

There's a massive difference between states and cities. Are you talking about states now?

Why are you comparing service workers in Florida to software engineers in California? Being in the service industry is worse in CA than FL, even with a higher min wage (which usually increases cost of living just as much). And there's not much of a middle class in CA either regardless of industry, in fact the entire state is known for its vast wealth inequality and disappearance of the middle class.

As far as affordability of housing in SF, it's because of city policies that refuse to let new housing be built, not because people don't make enough to buy a home. Same with extremely high taxes that deliver no value to citizens while the city is overrun with crime and homelessness and deteriorating infrastructure. This is separate from employment, and really needs to be fixed first before you can increase opportunities for people.

[mrgordon]

“Extremely high taxes that deliver no value to citizens”

Hah! Yep the money just disappears

Your comments throughout this thread make it clear you don’t want to have a discussion on the issues. So we can agree to disagree.

In summary, the point is software engineers in Florida rarely get equity or decent healthcare either, if they can even find a real software job in FL that isn’t just IT for some company that has nothing to do with computers. Most of the Floridian software engineers I know work for companies based in California or NY / MA where there are networks of successful startups and angel investors who help get new companies off the ground. You criticize San Francisco for deteriorating infrastructure when places like Florida haven’t even managed to build comparable infrastructure. It’s easy to critique BART but until you take Tri-Rail you’ll never realize that it’s like BART is from the future in comparison. The machines to buy tickets routinely don’t work to the point that I had to board without a ticket and just pay a fine when they checked tickets so I didn’t have to wait an hour for the next train.

Meanwhile the state is sinking while they deny climate change. Truly an infrastructure disaster.

[manigandham]

> "make it clear you don’t want to have a discussion"

We are literally having a discussion. Does it only count if we agree? Call it a debate then if you must.

And yes the money does disappear. It's called waste, a very common problem with how governments spend money. The quality of life and govt services in SF and CA are not commensurate with the taxes collected.

The wider point is that ratio of avg income to expenses is worse in CA than FL. This is what "adjusted" cost of living means, and is regardless of various specific niches and industries that you're focusing on.

If you still think FL is worse than fine, just move to CA. You might love it here, but I doubt you will once you realize just how bad the politics are, which was what the original claim was.

[mrgordon]

"make it clear you don’t want to have a discussion on the issues"

You literally chopped off the last three words to try to make it sound like it said something different. Saying that when you pay more taxes it just blanketly disappears is both demonstrably false and clearly an exaggeration to the point of no longer being a discussion on the issues.

I spent over a decade living in California. I'm well aware what its like.

[manigandham]

What else are we discussing other than the issues? Do you have an actual argument? First you said Miami isn't better than SF, then you compared Florida and California based on service workers vs software engineers while ignoring the cost of living actuarials, and now... you're arguing that California doesn't waste taxes?

Based on what? Taxes are the highest and constantly increasing, meanwhile every possible metric about livability, govt services and quality of life have dropped drastically. It's absolute fact that tax money is being wasted and the state is insolvent with a severe deficit. [1][2][3][4]

Do you have any actual evidence to the contrary? Is living here for a decade supposed to mean something? Because I've lived here 2.5 decades and millions of other residents agree with my assessment. Please discuss or show something that backs up your claims now.

1) https://www.businessinsider.com/california-worst-quality-of-... 2) https://observer.com/2019/05/california-homeless-crisis-san-... 3) https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/30/tax-hike-on-california-milli... 4) https://www.latimes.com/projects/california-fires-damage-cli...