[dn2k]

When it comes to Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies HN community seems to become the church of central bankers, where the same old (debunked millions of times) BSs are repeated over and over as a mantra.

You may not agree with a sound money economy, and you may like the idea of a central bank that manipulate the market to encourage spending and discourage savings.

But thankfully nobody is forcing you to use Bitcoin, and that's alone one of the main interesting point of it, it's completely and absolutely an open and voluntary economy.

[hyko]

the church of central bankers

That's not a HN thing, that's the mainstream view. The last time hard/sound money was in vogue was long ago, and even when it was based on physics and not software it came with a host of ultimately intractable problems for society. The current system is no utopia either, but poor returns on savings are not the fault of central banks but the symptoms of prevailing economic conditions. There are of course limits to monetary policy, but "sorry there's just no more money available for some arbitrary reason" shouldn't be one of them.

From a technology perspective, Bitcoin is an interesting invention, but from a monetary point of view it's a backward step. That's partly why there are so many skeptical voices about the prospects of basing the money system on cryptocurrencies here.

I say this as an early adopter and friend of the technology.

[roenxi]

> ultimately intractable problems for society

So sayth the people who want to borrow lots of money and not pay it back. The economists may have evidence to back the idea up, but that evidence isn't what is driving the political discourse.

The political discourse is driven because voters with loans go ballistic when rates go up. And so do wealthy businessmen who can't afford to repay their debts.

[hyko]

The people who want to borrow lots of money and not pay it back don’t care about monetary policy, they just borrow lots of money and then default on it. One can do that in fiat currency, gold, Bitcoin, or cigarettes.

The intractable problems come when there’s a mismatch between economic activity and the money supply. In the case of shiny metal money, that’s usually deflationary, but not always: see the Spanish Price Revolution of the 15th Century https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_revolution

[roenxi]

> they just borrow lots of money and then default on it.

I don't think anyone is claiming that the US government is going to do a straight default on their debts. If anything troubles them they will use monetary policy.

> In the case of shiny metal money, that’s usually deflationary, but not always: see the Spanish Price Revolution of the 15th Century https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_revolution

I'm not going to see anything useful to me an economic event from 500 years ago in a language I don't speak, enmeshed in a foreign legal system, totally different technological and social conditions and potentially questionable record keeping with uncertain customs around law enforcement.

Even the frame there is incomparable; Wikipedia is quoting 1–1.5% inflation as 'high'. I wish that was considered high these days, I think low inflation leads to good results.

Honestly that just looks like supply and demand. Lots of new metal -> price changes. Hardly a problem.

[kaio]

> You may not agree with a sound money economy, and you may like the idea of a central bank that manipulate the market to encourage spending and discourage savings.

For me its actually the opposite: I feel like crypto markets are much easier to manipulate- so its done more often. I would also expext that a currency is used in daily life and not saved as form of high risk investment

So while I don't think that Banks operate for the benefit of mankind, I don't see where Cryptocurrencies would help, either. And to be fair the most real-world contact I had with Bitcoin are All of criminal nature - So there is definitely a certain negative bias

[nfin]

The real world contact you see has a negative bias because you probably live in “first world country”.

What do you think it feels like you lived in Venezuela where the currency is devaluated faster you can look and you are being foreced (!!) to use that currency!

Would you have the same bias?

Sure you can say “that not happening to me”. But how do you know it won’t ever happen to you or your country (every super power country has had it down turn at some point (and with that often monetary crisis). Might change some time, but history won’t make you feel sure about that.

And Venezuela is not alone. There has been hyperinflation on average evey 2 year in some country around the world (until one day it reaches you).

[robjan]

The definition of sound money is that it's backed by a tangible asset. Cryptocurrencies do not meet this definition apart from stable coins which then don't meet your definition of "can't be manipulated".

[everfree]

Stable coins are not really tangible assets either, because they are backed (usually) by USD, which is in turn itself not backed by tangible assets.

[mdoms]

I've never seen someone here make the claim that they're being forced to use Bitcoin, but here you are arguing against that claim anyway.

[dn2k]

> but here you are arguing against that claim anyway.

where exactly?

[pmachinery]

"nobody is forcing you to use Bitcoin"

[madmaniak]

This article is promoted by HN itself.

[heckerhut]

Yes, spot on. HN mostly hates crypto but for all the wrong reasons. I learned a lot about the community here when I first realized that.