[_where]

I want old pre-AppStore OSX/macOS that doesn’t nanny my installs or screw old drivers, with a good package manager, and easily tabbed and gridded terminal windows without tmux necessarily.

I’d also like GPL’d Windows XP running flawlessly like a mac.

I’d use Linux on the desktop, but I’ve never liked any of the desktop managers and it was never as reliable as OSX/macOS.

[LuvSauce]

Would you mind using Linux? It's been my experience that it's done everything I wanted it to well. Linux on desktop has changed. I hated it too in the 2000s. Now mostly everything just works, KDE can look and feel like any desktop including OSX. Very reliable. You'll find a pirated version of XP running as you wish soon since the leak of the XP source code not GPL though.

[usefulcat]

> Now mostly everything just works

'Mostly' is the key--and the problem.

I've been using Elementary OS as a daily driver for at least a year, maybe two (and before that I used Mint for several years). For the most part (there's that pesky word again!), it works quite well. And it really is beautiful--aesthetically, I quite like it.

But boy do I wish that bluetooth would work reliably. Since working at home full time, noise-cancelling headphones have gone from 'nice to have' to 'nearly essential'. It worked more or less fine for a while, then some update broke something and it stopped working. Now it's working again, kind of, but connecting a pair of headphones causes most of the entire UI to stop responding for a full minute or two. Sigh.

And maybe the next time I update it will be fine again. Who knows? And that's the problem: every update feels like Russian roulette. And this isn't even a laptop. I use this thing for work; I do not have time to dick around all today troubleshooting obscure bluetooth problems.

If I'm going to continue to use it, I guess what I need to do is stop updating (or only update specific apps, like firefox) once I happen upon a relatively 'stable' configuration. Security updates be damned.

[brnt]

If you want it to just work, stay away from those cutting edge distros stick to Linux' Windows: Ubuntu LTS.

Its boring, but like Windows, that's precisely why it works out of the box.

[KlaymenDK]

To add to this, I prefer Ubuntu MATE, where "MATE" refers to the desktop environment: it's exactly what it needs to be, light and responsive and useful, without the need for a GPU just to render you friggin' desktop. It's neat.

[saagarjha]

Elementary OS is based on Ubuntu LTS.

[swiley]

In general if you see something super polished on Linux there's a decent chance it's broken. I think that's what GP was trying to say.

[happyjack]

There is WAY too much truth in this post :)

[brnt]

Hackintoshes are based on macOS, but that doesnt mean it receives the breath of testing and scrutiny as the real deal.

Thats the whole point, right? Obviously smaller and non-mainstream distros with non-mainstream packages, more cutting edge packages will have more paper cuts.

[duckducky]

Use pulse audio volume control. See if it would help. Mine also broke after some system update. With this I was able to select bluetooth profile as well as set audio out via bluetooth. Before finding this bluetooth headset wouldnt work correctly on elementary os, but never needed it in linuxmint.

apt install pavucontrol

[foobiekr]

you're missing his point. the issue is not the specific issue but the endless litany of issues.

[duckducky]

Didn't miss the point at all. Why would you assume that? I faced a similar problem as parent and know the pain point. Was just trying to let parent know of a solution I found useful.

[input_sh]

I'm in the same situation as you: work from home, own noise-cancelling Bluetooth headphones, use elementary OS.

Personally, the only problem I've ever had is when two devices are connected to my headphones (laptop and a phone). When a notification pops up on my phone, my headphones get "taken over" by the sound from my phone. I basically just turn off Bluetooth on my phone at that point (easier than disconnecting a device).

Minor annoyance for sure (especially because I have notifications turned on for like 3 apps on my phone), but I'm so used to elementary OS (using it since 0.2) that there's no way I can switch to anything else — Windows or another Linux distro — at this point.

[sanitycheck]

I almost just spat out my tea.

I've tried to move to Linux once a year since 2005. A few weekends ago I did my annual attempt and had a go at Elementary OS (live USB wouldn't boot, gave up), MX Linux (couldn't get sound, wouldn't boot after installing nvidia drivers), Manjaro XFCE (kept locking up, requiring a power cycle) and Pop OS.

Pop fared best, but even then I had all kinds of showstopper problems with monitor power saving, resolution, crazy window repositioning, and some behaviour where the desktop workspace randomly becomes far larger than the monitor and sort of pans around. If I leave my computer for 10 mins then have to spend 20 mins fixing it when I come back, that is a deal breaker.

I persevered though... Tried playing a game, alt-tabbed out to do something else, machine rebooted. Tried to use their tiling window manager functionality, but it had all kinds of weird bugs making it virtually impossible to use for anything except simply switching focus (and even then, their theme does not visually distinguish between focused and unfocused windows, which is problematic!)

Anyway... rant over. Short version: I disagree with you. :)

[fauigerzigerk]

My experience is very similar. And yet in every debate on this subject some people will claim that they are running Linux without experiencing any of these problems. They can't all be lying can they? So what gives?

I believe it all comes down to selecting the right hardware. The way I've been trying Linux was to install it on some machine I had lying around (mostly Acer, Asus, MacBook, no-name towers). Apparently, that's not how it works.

I remember back in 1990s and early 2000s it was hit and miss whether or not Linux would install on a particular machine. Then over time things improved and you could install it on almost any machine.

Some Linux enthusiasts celebrated this achievement by claiming loudly that Linux now "just works". They couldn't possibly have done a greater disservice to the desktop Linux movement, because that's just not true.

It doesn't just work. It just installs. And then it's crushingly disappointing on most machines.

My next Linux attempt will be on one of those known good hardware configurations. Anything else is just a waste of time.

[jmnicolas]

Sadly I have about the same experience as you with my last attempt 2 weeks ago.

I started wit KDE Neon, but it failed to install drivers for my Nvidia card and proceeded to sabotage my sound drivers in the process (they were working fine before).

I then switched to ElementaryOS which did fine with my Nvidia but every time it played a sound it would send a loud crack in my speakers.

Back on Windows which I feel a prisoner of. The thing is sending data all over the internet, I can't even write a diary because I feel like I live in the USSR where I have to pay attention to everything I say or the KGB will get me (to be clear it's just a metaphor, I understand I can write whatever I want on my PC without consequences but I don't like the feeling that my inner thoughts would end up on a server somewhere).

[happyjack]

^This

I run Linux as my daily driver, but I really do get your pain. There are way too many items problems that run in the way. Live usb didn't boot. Volume keys don't work, etc. etc. It has gotten WAY better, but the polished professional feel just isn't there yet. Your trackpad won't feel 100%, if you don't know your hardware inside / out your Nvidia card or something else might not work. Part of the problem, too, is that there are way too many projects inside the open source world. While that is a blessing, it's also a curse.

Some people just want to boot a machine and get to work. Even though I run Linux, I have become that person as well.

[maxerickson]

Xfce doesn't really do enough to get in the way.

I guess I don't pay much attention to the look and feel though, mostly clicking around inside a couple of apps.

[happyjack]

This is me. I run Xfce (Xubuntu default settings) and it gets out of my way. I love it.

[PaulDavisThe1st]

You've tried every desktop manager for Linux and spent enough time with them to be sure you didn't like them? Very impressive.

Not sure what your reliability metrics are, but I've run Linux and macOS desktops side by side for years now (decades, even), and I don't really detect much of a difference. The macOS ones do tend to have the benefit of a rigid hardware platform, which is why I suppose they do a bit less well when forced to run on an arbitrary platform (e.g. inside KVM).

[PaulDavisThe1st]

Rather than give me negative points, how about you folks doing that trying to actually respond?

[dang]

If you want good-faith responses, it's best not to be a jerk in what you're posting. Actually, your comment would be excellent if it had been just the second paragraph. Unfortunately the first paragraph negated it (and then some) before it even had a chance. That's one reason why the HN guidelines include "Don't be snarky."

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here, we'd be grateful and you'll get much more interesting responses. Note these in particular:

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

"Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading."