[HashingtheCode]

> Tribal instincts reduce the ability to challenge bad ideas because no one wants to get kicked out of the tribe.

Spot on. In the work place, this is toxic. Especially if on top of this fear of being kicked out, you have a psychopathic boss.

What happens in this scenario? Bad decision after bad decision with workers even though they know it is wrong, won't challenge out of fear.

>So people either willingly nod along with bad ideas, or become blinded by tribal loyalty to how bad the ideas are to begin with.

Damn office sheep....

[o_class_star]

Office culture is pathological, but I think the extreme rejection-aversion people have is, within the modern world, least maladaptive in the office environment.

We're built to overreact (relative to our modern context) to social rejection because we evolved in small groups. In the bad old days, being rejected or embarrassed in front of your tribe meant you were socially, reproductively, and possibly literally dead. In tribes of 100 people, it made sense to respond strongly to rejection of all forms. In today's world, it doesn't. You get rejected (for jobs, for romantic partnerships, etc.) a lot more, but it's usually harmless. It's "a numbers game"; but our wetware hasn't caught up. Which is why people are so averse to taking social risks, breaking rules even when they should be broken, and pointing out bad ideas.

Thing is, in the office world, we're back in those small tribes where each minuscule rejection or aggression is a possible threat. We're back in the world where being disliked by one or two of the wrong people means catastrophe. So, that's an environment in which is really does make sense to play it safe.

Challenging bad ideas benefits the company. It almost never benefits the person raising the issue. If you're wrong, you look like an idiot. If you're right but not convincing, you look like an idiot. If you're right and you are convincing, someone higher in the power structure will take credit for your idea.

[jmartini]

Sorta random, but these comments remind me of that 10th man concept from World War Z: https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/12616/is-the-10th...

[o_class_star]

It makes sense. If a world leader claims that he won an election with 99% of the vote, we assume it was a fraudulent election.

The thing is, in American capitalism, bosses want their underlings to think they have input and think decisions are made by consensus when, in reality, the "right answer" was preselected, and the politically savvy know what it is. Corporates don't actually want workers to have say. They just want the workers to work as hard, and buy in as much, as they would if they actually had a say.

This is also why venture funded companies give employees token stock option allocations even though the percentages are actually a joke. In exchange for options that might be worth $5,000 per year by fair market value, the workers work 50% harder because enough of them are young and inexperienced enough to think they "own the company" in a meaningful way.

[HashingtheCode]

My friend found out the hard way; challenging the ideas of her manager. She now has her head on the chopping block and is under constant passive-aggressive attack by said manager. Her co-worker "friends"....nowhere to be found, no support, no anything except a deafening silence.

All because of fear.

[o_class_star]

Capitalism has replaced the community with the office. You don't know your neighbors, you see your extended family once a year if that, and it's almost impossible to make friends after age 30 because we live in a stratified world built to keep us apart from each other. But the people who share the (mis?)fortune of selling their time to the same employer, they're the ones you spend all your time with, and they become your community or your small town.

This pushes you to invest yourself emotionally into a community that a wealthier, more powerful person can take away in an instant.

[agumonkey]

I've been struggling with this for a long while, so much I'd think to go to study group about the subject or go into sociology.

A place can rot to quite a surprising amount yet people in it won't be able to react.