[logicOnly]

You don't buy a Tesla for reliability. You buy one to show your friends.

No other automaker gets this pass(except maybe Jeep vehicles).

Anyway, as bad as Tesla quality is, customers getting new cars from new companies should have little expectation of quality. (Although Tesla made it's first car in 2006, at when do they stop getting such sympathy?)

[misiti3780]

Look at the numbers:

Tesla shipped 139K[1] cars last quarter and 1 roof blew off, nobody died, and now they are unreliable ? Now compare that to existing automakers that have had years more of manufacturing experience, six sigma bullshit, etc and look at the largest recalls[2]. (Ford recalled 7.9 million cars in 1996)

People buy Tesla because they are much more efficient than combustion engines, have superior technology, and a lot more fun to drive .. and maybe it makes you cool to IDK.

I really do not understand why everyone on HN hates tesla so much ...

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/2/21498558/tesla-q3-2020-ve...

[2] https://money.cnn.com/2014/05/27/autos/biggest-auto-recalls/

[logicOnly]

Same reason people don't like Apple. A low quality product sold by massive advertising/marketing campaigns.

And yes Tesla is unreliable, there's no debate here. A new car company is going to be unreliable. And why are you using Absolute numbers? 1 roof, 7 million Ford cars. You made a statistical error here.

And what is this about combustion engines? It's 2020, everyone sells an EV. Only Tesla sells a low quality EV.

[misiti3780]

Re Apple: Apple is the most valuable company in the world, what are you talking about?

Re statistics error - what error did I make ?

Re combustion engines, have you tried to do a road trip in a non-tesla EV using charge point. I suggest you try and then report back about how bad the experience is.

[fomine3]

So Coca-Cola is the best?

[blakesterz]

Funny you mentioned Jeep, I remembered reading the Consumer Reports review of the 2021 Wrangler, it was bad. It's by far the lowest rated vehicle there. Pretty much everything is terrible on that thing. Road Test, 36/100, Reliability 1/5, Predicted Owner Satisfaction... 4/5. I had to go back and double check that again, just to be sure. Apparently people love those Wranglers, no matter what.

[jm4]

I have a Tesla and also had a Wrangler until a few weeks ago. Nobody is buying either one for fit and finish. The Wrangler was a total piece of crap and it drives like a pregnant rollerskate. You feel like you could be seconds from death any time you get it up to 75 mph, it chugs gas like nobody's business and it performs like your typical John Deere. It was also awesome, tons of fun and the kind of car that would be every bit as cool in 20 years. I got it back when you could still buy an unlimited miles warranty from Chrysler so I didn't really care that it was junk.

I love the Tesla. I wouldn't say it's built badly, but it's not on par with an import in the same price range. I like it for other reasons. It's unlike any other car. I love the way it drives, I love the features, it feels futuristic. I would challenge anyone to drive a decked out Tesla for a year and then go back to a regular car as their daily driver.

[jnwatson]

Consumer Reports has hated on Wranglers for at least 15 years. They are indeed poor road cars, but that's not really what they are designed for.

[taylodl]

Jeep has gone downhill quite markedly now that they're Fiats. I don't have any history with Fiat but I do know since the merger of Chrysler & Fiat in 2014 Jeep has gone downhill. As others have mentioned it's become a lifestyle brand instead of a utility brand. IMO once more people become aware of the significant reduction in their utility value then their sales will plummet. But I could be wrong. All I know is I have a 2008 Jeep Wrangler with 220,000 miles on it and I found it worthwhile to drop a new engine in it. That was a cheaper and more reliable option than getting a new vehicle - even knowing in 2-3 years I'm going to have to put a new transmission into it.

[reportingsjr]

Jeeps haven't been considered reliable or well made for decades, if ever.

[bitexploder]

They are very much a lifestyle vehicle. They offer an idea of "mobility" and "going anywhere", basically vehicular freedom to tackle any type of terrain, even if most people never will. Very American sentiments that resonate with Wrangler owners.

[jxcl]

Yep! I own a 2012 Wrangler. It's a toy more than transportation. It gets me where I need to go but carrying more than one passenger is a pain. The windscreen fluid jet is poorly located and doesn't get the whole windscreen when I need to get rid of dirt on the windshield. I have had to JB weld the gear shift knob back together.

It's a completely impractical and inconvenient car. But I still love it because it's fun to drive and it can, in fact, go pretty much anywhere.

[gilrain]

I think they also benefit from the fact that off road hobbyists really do use Wranglers. They just use ancient models which have been lovingly restored and modified over decades, but they're Wranglers.

So then the more aspirational type want to emulate them, but they want it newer and shinier and with a warranty, so they wind up with the substandard SUV which is the new Wranglers.

Exactly the same story with Land Rovers in the UK, incidentally.

[rpledge]

There really isn't a competitor to the Wrangler if you're into offroading. Sure pickup trucks compete but the size of a Wrangler + the massive aftermarket support make it hard to beat. The new Bronco might eat some of the market but time will tell.

[bitexploder]

On the other hand, despite minor quality things, my wife loves our Model 3. For the price and what it achieves it is a great vehicle. I always tell people Tesla is a software company that happens to make cars. In that regard they are a decade ahead of traditional manufacturers in my estimation. Look at how low quality the software ecosystems of most traditional manufacturers are.

[pwinnski]

Unfortunately, people keep driving them on roads like cars, not just operating them like software.

[newen]

> Tesla is a software company that happens to make cars

Probably the scariest statement in this thread, given what we know about the reliability of software.

[acwan93]

I didn't really believe this back when I was driving a BMW and Honda daily running CarPlay, but now that I'm on the Model 3 I'm hitting lots of software bugs on the Tesla head unit that would've never passed even the most basic of software QA at my previous job.

The Tesla head unit makes the current automaker's head units look super reliable and as solid as a rock. OTA software updates do have their benefits, but it seems like it leads to compromising quality for pushing features of questionable utility out the door.

I get really disappointed when I see Tesla implementing really unnecessary features like Rainbow Road (the over-done SNL "more cowbell" skit) and fart mode. Focus on the reliability before making these features.

[gamblor956]

Look at how low quality the software ecosystems of most traditional manufacturers are.

The new in-dash systems in the Subarus and Ford E-Mustangs appear to be on par with Tesla, usability wise, and unlike Tesla can be used with physical controls.

[logicOnly]

This is telling. The user expects a software experience, but Tesla software is notoriously buggy.

This same experience with a Ford logo would end in a negative review.

[bitexploder]

I am very ambivalent. I love electric vehicles for the environment, but I grew up with and love sports cars. The Tesla is just too clean and clinical for me. I do have to say, though, I own a high end Ford truck that carries their flagship infotainment system and it is /nothing/ like the Tesla. It actually crashes more often. The only thing it has going for it is CarPlay, but even that can be buggy and not work right at times. Meanwhile the giant infotainment screen on the Tesla generally just works and behaves nicely. It is one thing to read people nitpicking Tesla and another to drive them day to day and be realistic. People love the cars for a reason, they are fun, have really great resale value, are very easy to maintain, and can have very exciting driving performance.

[jm4]

It's not that bad. You get a crappy release once in a while and it gets fixed within a week or a month at the most. And most of those bugs are in new features they continue to add after I've bought the car. Meanwhile, my Chevy has the worst software and infotainment system I've ever experienced and the dealer wants $169 just to check for updates. I've owned a half dozen cars in the last 5 years and none of them had software remotely on par with the Tesla. Toyota and Honda were probably the only others I liked because they didn't really try to do much. They just worked.

[mhh__]

But they're not a car company!