[dfischer]

Privacy and the concept of property blur in the digital. This is interesting when taking the philosophy of natural laws and what a nation like USA is built upon (ideas of natural laws including property, defending life, and so on)

Encryption is the only way to have property in the digital universe, however the mechanics of property and cost are also entirely different. Once it exists it’s costless to reproduce in said form. However relying on encryption feels a little repugnant as it relies on transferring trust to a mathematical minority that truly understand it. And no encryption has ever gone unbroken with time. Should there even be a contrived concept of property in the digital universe?

Is there anywhere to learn more of these ideas or consequences in more detail? I’ve had various conversations of this but it would be nice to see a top down review of these ideas and actions in a modern light.

[GuB-42]

> However relying on encryption feels a little repugnant as it relies on transferring trust to a mathematical minority that truly understand it.

Physical locks also rely on a minority that truly understand them. A bit less true now that you can find lockpicking tutorials all over the place, but most people just trust their locksmith, who, in turn, trust lock manufacturers.

> And no encryption has ever gone unbroken with time.

Depends on what you are meaning by "broken" and by "time". For example MD5 is broken for collision, but not for preimage, and some algorithms are broken only in theory. As for time, what do you mean? 5 year, 50 years, the age of the universe? And anyways, it is the same for almost every security measure, including physical locks.

> Should there even be a contrived concept of property in the digital universe?

It is an interesting subject because you are probably going to get very different answers if you are talking about DRM or if you are talking about personal data, even though they are both tied to the concept of property. And in every case, it is backed by law. A burglar is not allowed to steal your stuff because your lock is weak, and picking a lock without permission from the owner is illegal. In the same way distributing copies of copyrighted material is illegal without a license, especially if you crack the DRM, and personal data is protected by law (unless you give a license).

[leetcrew]

> Physical locks also rely on a minority that truly understand them. A bit less true now that you can find lockpicking tutorials all over the place, but most people just trust their locksmith, who, in turn, trust lock manufacturers.

physical locks are not nearly as essential to physical security as encryption is to digital security, although they are definitely important. physical locks are only useful because most people don't want to get spotted on your doorstep fiddling with your lock. a determined adversary will just kick the door down or break a window. encryption needs to resist opportunistic attacks that can come from anywhere, 24/7.

[dfischer]

Yeah - essentially without encryption you don’t have the conceptual model of identity. You couldn’t be a unique soul in an avatar without encryption as a fundamental implementation.

Maybe that’s what 2nd law of thermodynamics is related to in Wolfram’s view.

[cesarosum]

> Should there even be a contrived concept of property in the digital universe?

Absolutely. Property in law designates rights. Frequently multiple different types of rights are bundled and coexist. This enables the same physical property to be the subject of several and often competing interests e.g. ownership, possession, custody, freehold, leasehold, legal and equitable interests. Having a property right means being able to exclude others from that property to a greater or lesser extent. This may then be modified in different legal contexts but not radically. The statement holds true grosso modo. Online property rights are modelled on traditional property rights without need for more. The discussion of online property is normally about rights of transferring, managing etc. or rights in the manner of acquisition, dealing, disposal etc. Of course this refers to physical assets, but since property is rights and these are created and managed digitally it is online property ipso facto.

[blackbear_]

I agree with your sentiment and I would also be interested to know more.

Economics hasn't really caught up with the situation of zero marginal cost enabled by computers and the internet. Surely there must be a better way than artificially limiting supply?

[nighthawk24]

Check out the Zcash team building private internet money based on zk-SKNARKs https://z.cash/the-basics/

[GoblinSlayer]

>And no encryption has ever gone unbroken with time.

AES somehow evaded it since 1998. Coincidentally it was selected in the first open competition.