[cvrjk]

I am an Indian, and I've studied at an Indian university for my undergraduate degree, and I've witnessed spam like this everywhere. Not hacktoberfest, but I've been a part of it myself for some of the other things. Wish I had behaved better.

In most of these cases, it usually starts with someone really talented doing it with all the good intentions, and everyone else wanting to get in on that 'swag' and appear just as 'talented' and 'unique' amongst their peers. The freebies are mostly for 'show off'.

A few hours ago this link showed extremely low effort LeetCode/Programming Challenge problems and solutions aggregation repos created by us Indians (disproportionally more than any other country at the time I checked) with very silly open issues created & marked as 'hacktoberfest2020' (looks like some of them are gone now)[1].

But, from what I heard from my uni recently, things are improving and this year folks are trying their best to form groups to focus on meaningful contribution over spam.

Even after all that, unfortunately for us though, we'll still have bad actors, probably at the same percentage as any other country, but amplified due to our population and hyper-fixation with an unreal perception about most things we do.

[1] https://github.com/search?p=1&q=label%3Ahacktoberfest+state%....

[Thorentis]

Why do Indian IT students seem disproportionately represented when it comes to things like this? It seems like there is a strong culture of "getting ahead at all costs". This is seen in shitty YouTube tutorials, blog posts, open source submissions, all the way down the very bottom of the barrel with call centre scammers. Care to explain for us?

[swyx]

you're surprised motivated people, who lack privilege and dont know any better, resort to what they know and have been taught to do? who live on much less than you do and therefore can live off much lower value economic activity?

is it fair to place the blame squarely on them or is it better to recognize that the global system we are complicit in has created this tremendous waste of human potential?

[tjs8rj]

Your comment seems to exude a kind of inadvertent tone suggesting "they fault is not with them, but in their lack of civilization". In other words, it's likely racist.

By GDP per capita, India is where the US was at in the 1950s. Would we excuse this behavior in the 1950s West just because "they lack privilege, don't know any better, resort to what they know and have been taught to do..."? Of course not, because relative poverty is no excuse for unethical behavior.

[Xylakant]

The way I read the GP post it’s more “the way economics are structured strongly incentivized them to engage in this behavior.” which is more a statement about how pressure and incentives work on humans than anything racist. I doubt that people in the US would react differently to the same incentives.

Comparing the raw GDP of the US in the 1950s to India now is glossing over a lot of points. For example, GDP per capita does not capture the (in)equality of wealth distribution in a country. Or how that GDP ranks on a scale: The US in the 1950s was in a high, probably even the top position (I didn’t check exactly which) - India with the same GDP now is definitely not. That makes a huge difference in perception.

It’s easy to dismiss the status value of a brand name piece of clothing or any token that elevates your status if you’re already high up on the ladder.

None of that excuses the behavior in the sense that it makes it “ok”. But it contributes to the explanation of why such behavior clusters in specific communities.

For me, that I’m ahead, it’s easy to look down and say that this is unethical behavior, but it’s important to keep in mind that I’m applying my ethics from a privileged vantage point - and likely you’re doing so as well.

[triceratops]

> By GDP per capita, India is where the US was at in the 1950s.

In the 1950s the US's GDP per capita was the highest. Is that the case for India today?

> Would we excuse this behavior in the 1950s West

I mean the 1950s West was no bastion of ethical behavior. Wasn't that when the cigarette industry in the US started its decades-long campaign of misinformation, obfuscation, and false advertising to cover up the harmfulness of their products? And this was flagrantly unethical behavior by some very privileged people. This is without even getting into how women or minorities were treated.

> relative poverty is no excuse for unethical behavior.

One man's "unethical behavior" is another man's "playing by the letter of the rules, not the spirit". Spamming PRs for a free T-shirt is no way comparable to call center scams.

[swyx]

quite the contrary, i was calling it out in the person i was responding to. but now you have accused me of being racist, i am unable to continue the conversation. have a nice day.

[yipbub]

I am still divided on your opinion about it being economical, but it was definitely not racist.

Identifying a privilege gap is not racist. India is definitely not in the same place as 1950s America which was the post-WWII boom. Sometimes called the Golden Age of america.

Then again, we do have some cultural issues to overcome, and yes, a lot of the cultural issues are a result of a traumatic period spent under the boot of the colonizers.

That being said, blame is not useful, the people responsible are dead, and hopefully we can mature as a culture. I see lots to be hopeful about, but lots to be fearful about too. The transition of power from colonials to our republic was botched, and now we're stuck with a broken political machine, and the powerful are trying to break it further.

[tjs8rj]

I was very deliberate in avoiding calling you racist. I said explicitly and deliberately that your comment (not "you") seemed (not "certainly was") inadvertently (not "intentionally") racist.

[higerordermap]

Lack of ethics or interest in the subject, luring to the ways of gaming the system - I'd say this reputation is well deserved, as someone who studies here.

[cutemonster]

> the global system we are complicit in has created this tremendous waste of human potential?

Thanks for writing -- I like that way of thinking about spammers etc -- that they could have been doing something meaningful instead, if the world and society made more sense