[kongolongo]

If you professionally write software that runs on or own any electronics with semiconductors or lithium ion batteries you are profiting from child slavery, war, and exploitation of workers through the rare-earth elements mining industry that provides the raw materials to produce these devices. That's not to mention the crimes committed during manufacturing chain of said devices.

This is an impossible moral standard. Yours is just as impossible. The FBI and DHS do a lot more than just deport immigrants. Palantir does more than just aid in deporting immigrants. If everything were so black and white the above statement would likely describe what you do as well.

[geofft]

I'd rather live in a world where we object to all of these crimes than one where we object to none of them.

[zepto]

Sure, but the point I think is that every one of us is actually benefitting from the proceeds of these ‘crimes’ in real time.

That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t care or ‘object’ to them.

What it does mean is that finger pointing and trying to act like we aren’t part of the problem but ‘they’ i.e. Palantir etc, are, is simply a way of pretending we aren’t complicit.

If borders are a problem, we need to solve that problem by working out a path to eliminating them that actually minimizes harm.

We can’t do that if all our energy is spent on branding people ‘criminals’ and ‘objecting’ to them when we’re part of the same system ourselves.

[geofft]

Sure, yes, I agree with that.

I think the point here is that Palantir presents itself as not participating in deportations or other widely-considered-distasteful things, and yet they do, and that deserves particular outrage.

I think it's quite reasonable for a company to say we don't know exactly what our supply chain looks like and the only way anyone can build electronics is to use somewhat-questionable supply chains, but we'll do the best we can and and take action if we know of specific instances of harm (e.g., avoid known-bad suppliers), because that's the only way to do better. I think there's a number of food companies and clothing companies that do the same thing about working conditions in their supply chains, too. Palantir isn't doing that - they're speaking out of both sides of their mouth, saying "of course we aren't doing it" while directly being involved. If Palantir were to say, for instance, that they understand their product could be used in this way, they're not interested in providing services for deportations and will cut off customers who are using it for that or indirectly providing services for other organizations doing that, then the public reaction would be very different.

(They could also say "Palantir fully supports the mission of America's law enforcement including ICE and ERO, work here if you want to support law and order and make America great again," and then nobody would accuse them of hiding what they work on.)

[kongolongo]

>I think it's quite reasonable for a company to say we don't know exactly what our supply chain looks like and the only way anyone can build electronics is to use somewhat-questionable supply chains, but we'll do the best we can and and take action if we know of specific instances of harm

No major semiconductor companies really does that that and definitely no tech company using the devices made by those semiconductor companies do that either. And even if they said they did it is still happening, so by the same standard this article is finding Palantir culpable of the deportations, I'd say its fair to find every tech company culpable of child slavery and exploitative mining practices as an example.

If it weren't Palantir it would just be another company. It seems pointless to focus on them specifically or ICE or any of the enforcement agencies for that matter when what seems to be the actual driver is the policies and laws that necessitates their existence. Seems like focusing on changing that is a much better target if you cared more than just assigning moral blame. Whether or not Palantir denies anything doesn't really change much if the outcomes are the same.

[zepto]

That’s a fair point, but it’s also fair to say that the reporting and comments do in fact conflate these two things, which is a similar problem in its own way.