[renewiltord]

The real answer if you're working in the space is that users will take a free thing over a paid/ad thing any day. They'll usually come up with some rationalization (don't like DRM, don't like targeting, etc.) but the reality is they just don't want to pay.

Don't fall into the trap of ever trying to build for these guys. No money will ever arrive, only ever more obscure conditions for the money.

There are places where users will pay. Just make things for them instead.

[ahmedalsudani]

From my comment:

> To preempt the question about content creators: I support the creators I want to support on patreon or by pledging on their website.

Every month, I happily fork over more money than my annual value to google. Only in one case is that money for paywalled material. The rest is purely to support content I enjoy. I would be equally willing to fund a platform that does not treat users and creators as cattle.

It’s true that many users have an inflated sense of entitlement. That has been created by the business model of offering “free” services in exchange for your data. Giving Google money now to get rid of the ads is rewarding them for building monopolies and then bilking their users.

Speaking for myself and not for the average user, I’m not about to fork over my data and my cash to the #1 beneficiary of the user entitlement that you’re describing.

[renewiltord]

Sure, but you're just one guy. I'm just telling that dude there's no point building for one guy. And you have this requirement on the data thing. The next guy is going to be like "Oh yeah, I do the same, but I give in Bitcoin" and the next guy is like "I only do it if the owner has a moustache on one side of his lip". There's no replicability. Like, I actually thought Patreon was pretty solid but it turns out they're not in a good place at all. Revenue is really low and growth isn't even that great.

Patreon never allowed porn but I wonder if there'll be a substitution effect with OnlyFans etc. We'll see. I just don't think catering to people like you is a good business. I'd stay out of it, honestly.

[ahmedalsudani]

Understood, and I agree that most users will be part of the race to the bottom.

It has been encouraging, however, watching more and more creative people switch to a direct relationship with their fans and basically doubling their ad-based income when only a small fraction of their audience signs up.

If 1% of your audience pays you about the same as the revenue from the other 99% through ads, there might be alternative models that can work. Not massively scalable ones, mind, but ones that can still provide a sustainable living without turning the user and creator into the product.

I am holding out for those platforms. In the meantime, I directly sign up with the people I like, and I avoid feeding the beast, trivial as I am.

[renewiltord]

Hey, we all do the thing that lets us be true to myself. I offset my carbon 100%, a thing that does nothing on its own for climate change, so I can relate to your position.