[Vivtek]

You've clearly never been to Europe - where quiet residential neighborhoods coexist perfectly well with a public transit system that works.

The only reason we don't have a public transit system that works any more is that GM was smart enough to realize there was even more money in it for them if they bought, and scrapped, all the public transit systems in America's smaller towns and cities. And it worked. Don't wallow in it; it's embarrassing.

[hapless]

I have been to some European countries, and that's patently untrue. Residential neighborhoods tend to contain lots of shared housing -- apartments/rowhouses with shared walls between units -- and all attendant noise and unpleasantness.

The only residential neighborhood I ever enjoyed was when I stayed with a family who lived as I do: four vehicles for four people, in a freestanding home, driving to the grocery daily. The major difference in our lifestyles is that, ignoring exchange rates, they paid easily five times as much to achieve my standard of living. I don't think they would willingly trade places with their middle class employees, living in the crowded row housing.

To put it another way, I reject your underlying argument. Yes, hundreds millions of Europeans have become accustomed to a lower standard of living than mine. No, that does not mean I will happily acclimate myself to the same standard.

[angdis]

"Standard of living" means different things to different people. One could say that you've acclimated yourself to a lower standard of living by burning up lots of time and money commuting and taking care of a car and large house.

I'll take a 900 sq ft walk-up with marble flooring and 12 foot ceilings in the middle of Paris IN A SECOND over any sopranos-style 4000 sq ft mcMansion made of plywood and tyvek and located 40 minutes from the nearest depressing strip mall.

[Vivtek]

I've been to some American cities where it's patently untrue as well. There are other places in Europe, where I repeat that you have obviously never been, and I'm talking about suburban Germany here, where it is not patently untrue - where, in fact, it is patently true.

So feel free to reject my underlying argument if you like. Just don't think that makes you right.

[jeza]

Closer to the US, Toronto and Vancouver manage to run effective public transport systems in American style cities. It's essentially a myth that you need high densities to support rail/bus services.

[dkersten]

Having been to Vancouver and living in Europe[1], I have to agree that public transport can work very very well. My uncle, for example, lives in a small country town in Germany and it is serviced by a very regular train with which you can pretty much go anywhere (obviously the distant destinations require you to go to the closest city and transfer from there, but any local towns and villages are quickly and easily reached).

[1] Sadly, in Ireland, public transport is not so great. I have family in mainland Europe though and public transport is (generally) quite good there.