[ardy42]

> There is no evidence that the measures slowed the spread as compared to the natural dynamics of an infectious disease as immunity builds. Compare Sweden’s curve to New York’s for example.

Compare the US's curve to China's. If the US hadn't tried to half-ass it's measures (at the personal to the national level), we wouldn't still be arguing about them because the virus would be under control and they wouldn't be necessary anymore.

[itsoktocry]

>Compare the US's curve to China's. If the US hadn't tried to half-ass it's measures

Are you advocating welding people in buildings?

[yanks215]

Indeed. And do we trust China’s numbers? I thought it was an unspoken fact that no one cites their data in legitimate media, since it is heavily manipulated.

[MagnumOpus]

Do you trust Taiwan’s data? They contained and eradicated the disease even more effectively than the Beijing regime, without thousands of deaths and millions of infections.

So clearly there are ways to check the spread and cut out 99% of deaths. (They are also not wizardry or witchcraft. Mandatory masks in public, temp measurement at schools and public buildings, quarantines at entry and positive diagnosis enforced extremely strictly by law enforcement, and tracing the infection chain. That’s literally it.)

[SpicyLemonZest]

But I think we're getting off track from the original discussion here. I strongly suspect Taiwanese disease control experts would identify a quarantine policy applying only to a specific 4 year age bracket as what a commenter upthread described as "half-ass measures"; a serious attempt to control the virus would have to apply to everyone, since everyone can spread it.

[ardy42]

> Indeed. And do we trust China’s numbers? I thought it was an unspoken fact that no one cites their data in legitimate media, since it is heavily manipulated.

Not particularly, but even if China undercounted by 10x, it's still way ahead of places like Sweden and the US on a per capita basis.

I have relatives there, and their lives are basically back to normal and have been for months. The bungling Western (especially American) response has unfortunately been a huge propaganda win for the Communist party. They're thanking every American asshole who loudly refuses to things as simple as wearing a mask for making them look good.

[ardy42]

> Are you advocating welding people in buildings?

No, that's a straw man. It's like saying that someone who advocates for an effective police force is also advocating for that force to recklessly kill suspects.

What I am advocating for is mandatory pandemic control measures that are strict enough to work and applied consistently until the job is done, and a population that's willing consistently take efforts to protect the common good rather than complain and resist when things aren't maximally convenient to them personally. That applies not just to first-order responses, but to second and third order responses as well.

[nradov]

How will we know when the job is done? Please give specific numbers.

Does violation of fundamental civil rights like freedom of assembly not also harm the common good? We can't focus narrowly on one objective and ignore everything else.