[takenpilot]

I like the idea from this article that basic income is a form of simplifying the government's social programs, leading to a smaller government overall. Slowly building up the basic income as those social programs are deconstructed is a wise way to do it.

[Reedx]

That was one of the points Andrew Yang made when he was pitching the Freedom Dividend.

Noting the efficiency of giving people money directly, and they can use it in a way that would be most useful in their particular case.

[londons_explore]

I'd like to see research on the frequency of universal income payments, and the effects it has in the welfare of the recipient.

For example, is it best to pay $10/day, $70/week, $300/month or $3600/year?

For recipients who don't do financial planning and saving, $10/day might cause more spending on food etc., While $3600/year might lead to more 'investments' like buying a laptop or registering for a training course.

[isaacgreyed]

As somewhere to start there be some preexisting research on the effects of tax returns on poorer families that I would not know how to find.

[the-dude]

You mean alcohol.

[ep103]

This reason is why it can be pitched to conservatives as well as progressives. It should be noted though, that basic income cannot 100% replace the welfare state. You cannot just give basic income to a person with sufficiently problematic mental health issues, for example, and call it a day. But yes, as a general rule, this is a point in the + column for UBI.

[matz1]

How does the welfare state currently help person with sufficiently problematic mental health issues ?

[ep103]

It doesn't. The welfare state has been gutted, and those with sufficiently problematic mental health issues are usually left to die in the gutter and/or beg for change.

But the system the US used to have, pre-Reaganomics, and which can still be accessed by those who are lucky enough to have other who can ensure their well-being on their behalf, involves placing those who are unable to fend for themselves, into organizations/homes/institutions/facilities where their needs can be met.

I know an individual who is badly schizophrenic. His family has managed to handle all of his paperwork, and get him placed in a home where he is overseen, that keeps him occupied, socialized, and out of trouble, with easy and regularly (monitored) access to the treatments he needs, and which are outside of his capability to acquire for himself. (This is NO small task. Our current system makes this extremely, and intentionally, difficult)

My point is, organizations such as the home he is in, could be funded through UBI (the UBI that said family member would be entitled to), instead of being paid for by a mix of his family members and the welfare state.

But there will always still be a need for governmental organizations / welfare state to ensure the existence of, regulation of, and potentially subsidization of, places such as that home.

I'm a huge proponent of UBI. But my point was just, UBI can replace a large % of the welfare state. It can't replace it 100%. There is still a role for government. You cannot just give people like said acquaintance money, and call the problem solved : )

[kyleee]

I would posit that it does so in a piecemeal and arbitrary way, leaving many destitute. Seems like a simplified basic income would help more people in need, though it wouldn't necessarily adress the mental health side of things

[lilboiluvr69]

It would be interesting to live in a national with UBI. How would it change interactions with homeless on the streets?

"No, I know you make $1000 a month like we all do, I'm not giving you money."

Speaking of which, I wonder how much money people give to homeless people each year...

[Mediterraneo10]

One should already be wary of giving to beggars on the street. Some already make a considerable amount of money and don't pay taxes on it (especially if they are busking in well-trafficked areas). Sometimes, if the beggar is part of a large clan that moves to an area to beg seasonally, all that money you are giving is immediately sent on to the "king" and the beggar does not get to keep any of it, so you aren't really helping. This is the reason why municipalities stress time and time again that you shouldn't give money to beggars, even without UBI.

[kwhitefoot]

If someone is busking I will give them money for providing me the pleasure of listening to their music. They are not begging. When I give an exceptional guitarist in the main square in Krakow ten zloty, that is not charity, it is payment for services rendered. If he or she does or does not pay tax on it is a matter for them and the tax authorities not me.

I almost never give money to actual beggars, partly because I feel that they should provide something in exchange but also because it is clear that many are part of criminal organizations that siphon off the bulk of the money (that is at least how it seems to be here in Norway).

[nickff]

If the proposition is to add UBI on top of the existing welfare programs, it will be a very hard sell to conservatives and libertarians. If you hope to win those two groups over, you need to demolish the welfare state, a proposition which will be opposed by many progressives/liberals.

[mrkstu]

I'd be fine taking the current 'welfare state' budget and redividing it any which way between UBI and current welfare priorities- for instance completely gutting food stamps but parsing out equivalent into the UBI stipend.