[ladberg]

I love that they're continuing the Dark Forest analogy! Makes me also realize I never want to dip my toe in crypto like that. It's like an amateur going up to an entirely unregulated wall street and expecting to earn some quick cash.

[pron]

Amateur has nothing to do with that. Ethereum, and "smart contracts" in general, are built on such shaky foundations that unless shakiness is what you're looking for, you have nothing of interest to find there.

[vvpan]

Can you elaborate? Why do you find that "smart contracts" are built on a shaky foundation?

[drchopchop]

Because there is no real formal verification process for smart contracts, it's extremely easy to slip bugs into the contract code, the contract itself is generally immutable (can't fix bugs), and the effects of a breach are generally catastrophic and irreversible.

Need more reasons?

[vvpan]

You are incorrect. Contracts are immutable but you can upgrade your application. There are different patterns, one where you make a shell contract that has pointers to contracts with actual business logic.

Also, there are patterns where the user needs to confirm that yes they want to use the new version.

There are also systems of insurance on contracts.

[ShorsHammer]

> there is no real formal verification process for smart contracts

Not following here, instead of process you mean no requirement to do so? The process is pretty clear and simple, there's a few different frameworks being built for smart contract formal verification along with the traditional methods working fine.

What was the last bit of code you wrote or used that was formally verified?

https://sci-hub.se/https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8905...

[BTCOG]

This as well. Immutable bugs.

[BTCOG]

Yes. Stay away from Ethereum altogether if for investment and simply put amounts you are willing to invest into Bitcoin.

Ethereum DeFi currently ongoing is extremely risky and insecure in the longterm for various reasons. The open smart contracting is super dangerous, the Ethereum blockchain is way too bloated, the fees are shooting up, and it was designed to be a shared computer, an EVM for running things. Bitcoin is an investment and sound money. They do not compare and don't have the same end goals.

[nullc]

The word you want here is "ethereum" not "crypto". Crypto is cryptography, and even if you want to redefine it as 'cryptocurrency' the sheer reckless yolo incompetence and scammyness of ethereum is not especially representative.

[ladberg]

I think "crypto" can mean cryptography or cryptocurrency depending on context. Every cryptocurrency I've seen has a Dark Forest, even if it's not as bad as Ethereum.

For example, if you create a private key using something guessable [1], point a camera at a QR code [2], or make a wallet using software you didn't write yourself [3], you can expect your money to irreversibly disappear faster than you can react.

[1] https://www.wired.com/story/blockchain-bandit-ethereum-weak-...

[2] https://www.theverge.com/2013/12/23/5238764/news-anchor-rece...

[3] https://cryptonews.com/news/popular-private-key-generator-co...

[microtherion]

What IS a "representative" cryptocurrency, then, if the #2 by market cap is not representative?

Would it be Bitcoin, used for such time-honored business as drug purchases and hiring contract killers? Would it be Tether, the fiat currency for people who think that central banks are excessively transparent?

The one extra element that Ethereum brings to the table is computationally much more powerful contracts, which makes it technically intriguing, but also adds another level of scammyness and incompetence to the enterprise.

[BTCOG]

Perpetuating myth and propaganda that even the US government doesn't say about Bitcoin, I see.

Did you pay attention to the recent Bloomberg article about cryptocurrencies being the best gaining asset class of 2020, or the article about the $2 trillion dollars worth of laundered money being done using traditional USD and banks? And how much money was laundered through Bitcoin again? A money that is very hard to hide. Bitcoin has smart contracting so it would appear you're just regurgitating things you've read rather than reaching into an in-dept knowledge on this subject.

[microtherion]

> cryptocurrencies being the best gaining asset class of 2020

And tulips were the best gaining asset class of 1636. The existence of speculation is not proof of the soundness of the underlying asset.

> trillion dollars worth of laundered money being done using traditional USD

The difference being that I have firsthand knowledge of honest economic activity being conducted with USD. I see practically zero evidence of cryptocurrencies being used in any honest economic activity, other than speculation.

> Bitcoin has smart contracting

Yes, but my understanding is that Ethereum can handle much more complex contracts.

[d3nj4l]

> Would it be Bitcoin, used for such time-honored business as drug purchases and hiring contract killers?

Well, at least it's used for business! Do people use eth for meatspace transactions, at all?

[swensel]

In terms of ethereum, do you mean ethereum smart contracts? The ethereum platform, as defined by it's creators, is actually quite technical. Anyone who spends the time to learn the Solidity language and what it takes to deploy a smart contract is free to, so yes there can be legitimate, illegitimate, poorly designed or well designed smart contracts, just like other software programs.

[ClumsyPilot]

There are worse coins out there than etherium