[rezeroed]

Re initiative. I've had jobs which did not want initiative on a macro level - my manager would tell me what was wanted, I'd go away and make it happen. Those managers loved me. My current role, bullshitted into a "devops" role, I'm expected to spend my days showing initiative - building things that I think will be useful - and which never get used. I'll take the former jobs. What I have now sounds like freedom, it feels pointless and torturously demotivating. Do my managers know what they're doing? Do they have any roadmap? Can they see shortcomings in our systems? Is it mushroom management or cluelessness? I think these positive sounding words eg "initiative" are not positive - they are context dependent. "Potential" - if you need someone writing endless crud, if they have potential are they going to stick around? Do you really want/need Achilles? Are you really leading the Trojan army? Maybe you just need sticky tape, not a welding torch.

[virgilp]

You touch on two issues here: one, that there's an entire gamut and not a binary "senior/junior"... and management just LOVE to present requirements like "Can walk on liquid water; God asks him for advice on how to run the world" when you ask "what do I need to do in order to get to next level", especially in big corporations [1].

The second is that different types of people prefer different styles of working and sometimes forget there is another side (multiple "other sides", really). A team needs to be a mix of capabilities and personalities to be successful - a team of 100 identical individuals would likely fail, even if all them are Peter Norvig). So, you need people that are "senior" in the sense that "knows the business well enough to provide different perspectives" (and for those "shows initiative" is critical) but you also need specialists where "senior" means "knows technology X really really well". Say, a DBA - can keep your database up, can write efficient queries to retrieve information that you want; but doesn't know sh*t about what information would be interesting to retrieve. Or whether it's a good idea to keep some information X in the database, considering the various business, legal, social, cost perspectives.

> Do my managers know what they're doing?

Here's the thing: I believe nobody _really_ does. Sure, some know more than others, but in absolute terms, we're all basically guessing. That's why people insist on engineers that "show initiative" - not because they're always right, but in an environment where we don't _really_ know what we're doing, people yelling different perspectives are valuable.

However, as mentioned above - not all senior engineers want or are inclined to show this kind of initiative; and it's unfair to penalize those kinds of engineers, because we _need_ the different types of personalities.

[1] FWIW I believe the reality is , always, that you need to (A) work on a successful project; and (B) be generally liked by your colleagues and maybe managers. For very senior titles, also (C) have a large network of connections within the company - i.e. work on many things, or on one thing but a thing that is used by many teams/ really popular)

[austincheney]

That is why it is so empowering to have options. I have two employers: one is among the largest and most profitable companies in the US and the other is US Army. In one of those initiative and leadership are rewarded at every level. That makes things interesting because it provides the freedom to rapidly experiment and prototype leadership to empower people the way I experiment with a side code project. In this environment the people you are leading are more eager to learn new things and be creative than my corporate coworkers that need a framework to do anything and panic at the slightest hint of originality.