[raxxorrax]

There are some mechanisms like that but I think this explanation, as well as that from the video, is layman psychology at best. Yes, there are factors or mechanisms that drive your desire for belonging, but it is a pretty unconvincing observation. It doesn't have to be tribalism to prefer being around people you trust.

But if so, being enlightened about the failures and limits of human psychology certainly would constitute a tribe of its own, no? Because it seems to be en vogue to have simple explanations. FOMO is more connected to the fear of the unknown and fear of loss in my opinion. A "tribe" would shield you of course, but it is mostly a sign of other needs not being met. Advertisers use it to their advantage for decades. Some appeal to their audiences to be the source of other peoples FOMOs. "think different" instead of "stay connected".

There are less suicides than in the 90s. That there is a suicide epidemic is a media scare. The main factor reducing the numbers seem to be economic perspectives, not some facebook group where taste was made illegal.

A much worse effect is that social media seems to push questionable characters in focus. Naive viewers and exploitative "influencers" can do quite some damage.

[DanBC]

> There are less suicides than in the 90s

It's difficult to compare suicide over time because the method of counting changes, sometimes drastically.

[CaptArmchair]

> I think this explanation, as well as that from the video, is layman psychology at best

Well, kurzgesagt back their statements with references to academic research:

https://sites.google.com/view/sourcesloneliness/startseite

They also vet their videos with experts and are transparent in their methodology:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtUAAXe_0VI&vl=ar

> Yes, there are factors or mechanisms that drive your desire for belonging, but it is a pretty unconvincing observation. It doesn't have to be tribalism to prefer being around people you trust.

Why would you assume that I didn't consider other explanations?

> FOMO is more connected to the fear of the unknown and fear of loss in my opinion.

In what way wouldn't "the fear of the unkown" or "the fear of loss" be less connected with the fear of likely missing crucial parts of the conversations your social network is having?

e.g. you might miss out hearing about a party, where someone makes an personal announcement (e.g. getting married, moving to another country,...). So, now your friends have a shared experience of having heard the news first hand that you aren't part of.

> A "tribe" would shield you of course, but it is mostly a sign of other needs not being met. Advertisers use it to their advantage for decades. Some appeal to their audiences to be the source of other peoples FOMOs. "think different" instead of "stay connected".

What "other needs" are these?

> There are less suicides than in the 90s.

How is the number of suicides 30 years ago relevant to a dynamic observed over the course of the past 15 years?

> That there is a suicide epidemic is a media scare.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db362.htm [2] https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide.shtml [3] https://afsp.org/suicide-statistics/

The exaggerating wording you're using here hints towards minimizing the issue, rather then a willingness on your part to acknowledge that social media usage and mental health are a public health concern.

> The main factor reducing the numbers seem to be economic perspectives, not some facebook group where taste was made illegal.

... but also seems to correlate with social media usage. They aren't mutually exclusive.

Look, we both know that establishing definitive observations on something as sensitive as suicide is hard. It's widely understood that suicide is underreported, and in many cases it's quite hard to establish exactly what compelled individuals to commit suicide.

The documentary equally stated that there's a correlation between increased social media usage after 2007 and an increase in suicide rate. But that's as far as it goes. In and of itself, I think that's compelling enough to warrant paying attention to.

Finally, this is touching upon a serious mental health issue, there was absolutely no need to make your comment sound as dismissive as it did.

[raxxorrax]

Their sources aren't convincing. The questions about loneliness don't support the conclusion.

https://ourworldindata.org/suicide

I didn't say social media usage isn't a public health concern, there are many things that drive addiction. Social media use is convenient and it doesn't expose you to risks. Perfect for any form of escapism.

I doubt suicide is underreported. There are certainly cases misattributed, cases of attempts are excluded perhaps, but concluding something on that assumption seems premature.

I still remain convinced that a lack of perspectives in life is probably a main cause. Maybe social media paints a wrong or a more realistic light, but it is probably not the source of increased suicide.

I specifically criticized the explanation about tribalism. It seems wrong and isn't underlined anywhere.

> In what way wouldn't "the fear of the unkown" or "the fear of loss" [...]

People have the fear that people are bonding while they are absent. Mostly the same sources that are the foundations of envy.

> What "other needs" are these?

Fulfilling companionship or friendship for example.

I think this is a case where the conclusion "social media sucks" was determined before the analysis of issues.

> How is the number of suicides 30 years ago relevant to a dynamic observed over the course of the past 15 years?

To have a reference. Especially if we only have social media for 15 years, it is self evident to lock back a few more years.

[DanBC]

> https://ourworldindata.org/suicide

This is not a credible source for suicide data.

> I doubt suicide is underreported. There are certainly cases misattributed, cases of attempts are excluded perhaps, but concluding something on that assumption seems premature.

There are lots of complicated reasons why suicide may be under-reported.

In the US the work to get standard definitions, in the NVDRS, to be used across the country is relatively recent. This document is from 2011.

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/Self-Directed-Vio...

> Despite the large volume of data on certain types of SDV, the utility and reproducibility of the resulting information is sometimes questionable. Mortality data are problematic for several reasons: geographical differences in the definition of suicide and how equivocal cases are classified; jurisdictional differences in the requirements for the office of coroner or medical examiner affecting the standard of proof required to classify a death as a suicide; and differences in terms of the extent to which potential suicides are investigated to accurately determine cause of death.18 The quality of the data on nonfatal suicidal behavior is even more problematic than that of suicides. The concerns about discrepancies in nomenclature19-23 and accurate reporting11,24 apply here even more than with suicides. Also, except for rare exceptions there is neither systematic nor mandatory reporting of nonfatal suicidal behavior in the United States at the state or local level, nor is there routine systematic collection of non-suicidal intentional self harm data.

> These “system” problems with data collection have been discussed for more than a generation. Over 35 years ago, the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) convened a conference on suicide prevention at which a committee was charged with recommending a system for defining and communicating about suicidal behaviors.25 More recently, two scientific reviews that addressed the state of suicide-related research also remarked on the need for consistent definitions. The Institute of Medicine issued a report entitled Reducing Suicide: A National Imperative.4 This report states ”Research on suicide is plagued by many methodological problems... definitions lack uniformity,...reporting of suicide is inaccurate.” “There is a need for researchers and clinicians in suicidology to use a common language or set of terms in describing suicidal phenomena.” The World Health Organization issued the World Report on Violence and Health.2 In the chapter addressing self-directed violence the authors note “Data on suicide and attempted suicide should be valid and up to date. There should be a set of uniform criteria and definitions and – once established – these should be consistently applied and continually reviewed.”

[raxxorrax]

The criticism at the data is valid, but there is still more evidence that points in the direction that suicide is on decline globally. And if the methodology of acquiring data is flawed to such a degree, we also wouldn't be able to make a statement in the other direction.