[stevensawtelle]

Can you talk more to the practicalities of getting rid of a smartphone? Have you seriously found that the loss of the conveniences they bring haven't been that burdensome? I am really intrigued by the idea but find it almost inconceivable to work for me (which might speak to an addiction, so I feel compelled to understand this further)

[perlgod]

I have not found it to be overly burdensome. I have an indestructible kyocera flip phone, so I'm able to call people (and SMS in a pinch).

I have an LTE-enabled tablet, so if I'm going somewhere totally unfamiliar, I'll throw it in my bag just in case I need to look up some information. Otherwise you just have to plan your outings in advance - like we always did prior to 2008 or so.

I have a Garmin GPS mounted in car for road trips, which I honestly prefer since it doesn't tempt me to fiddle with it while driving like a smartphone does. I also carry a semi-nice digital camera sometimes. It's obviously not as convenient as a smartphone camera, but I find I am more thoughtful and appreciative of the photos I take as a result.

I use more paper items (small paper notebook for grocery lists, transit tickets instead of using the app, etc). This can be somewhat freeing, as I've missed my ferry a handful of times because their app glitched out.

My personality tends towards obsession and analysis paralysis, which can be good for programming but sometimes bad for real life. I no longer obsess over which restaurant has the best looking pictures or online reviews, I just walk inside and try it out. Sometimes this is for the better, sometimes for the worse, but it's definitely a more human experience.

Without the smartphone, I also find I am much more inclined to talk to random strangers, since I can't just whip out the phone during awkward silent moments.

With lack of FOMO, I am also much more present with family and friends, which is probably the biggest benefit.

[noja]

> I have an LTE-enabled tablet

What made you compulsively use your phone, but not your tablet?

[bserge]

Imho, it's way more cumbersome, can't just have it in your pocket.

[bamboozled]

So where do you keep your tablet ? Why not put a phone in the same place ? Just put it “away”?

[srtjstjsj]

Brains are good at outsmarting themselves. Why don't junkies just stop taking drugs?

[stevensawtelle]

Thanks for the detailed reply. I will have to seriously give this some more thought. I saw somewhere else you mentioned you did it as an experiment at first - I think if I do it I will pursue a similar approach.

I appreciate that you mentioned you still have the LTE tablet - one of my biggest concerns was traveling and the HUGE convenience apps have on my life then.

[apatters]

You don't necessarily have to go cold turkey.

I haven't gone all the way and actually gotten rid of my phone, but I personally operate in three "modes:"

- Mode 1 where I'm going to need it for a task like navigation, or I'm OK with killing time and letting my mind wander. I keep it near me, always silent/no vibrate, and check it fairly often.

- Mode 2 where there's a remote chance I may need it because I might need to take a phone call or deal with an OTP. It sits out of sight, preferably in another room entirely.

- Mode 3, the phone is physically powered off. This is pretty much always the case after 8pm, it's frequently the case when I'm working, sometimes the case when I'm out with friends.

In practice I'm almost always in Mode 1 or Mode 3. I accept that it's OK/necessary to submit to distractions (though I do keep it on silent), or I just say screw it and turn it off.

In my experience if you develop a habit like always just powering it off after 8pm, after a few weeks the phone starts to lose its hold on you. You start having moments during the day where you're fiddling with it and your brain just goes "screw this, I would rather be relaxed, happy, and living life." That's the moment where Google, Apple etc. have lost the war they're waging against you, your brain is no longer hijacked, and it all gets better from there.

[therealx]

I traveled in Europe with a combo of an iPad Mini and, in some countries, a burner. It was a good choice at the end of the day.

[heroHACK17]

Thank you for this - I am considering making the switch also.

The biggest switch for me would be losing music streaming. What do you use for music on-the-go (at the gym, commuting, walking around, etc.)?

[jcynix]

Gym? Just the gym, no music. Walking? The same, enjoying my surrounding. I quit music streaming (tried Amazon, Google) after some trials and concentrate on a selection of music, which I can listen to again and again. I do use a tablet with a 256GB SD card, so have space to store a variety of things.

While my musical taste is eclectic (i.e. from classic over techno to glitch) I mostly prefer to either listen to music or do other things, instead of mixing those activities. I do listen to music on commutes, and sometimes while doing certain chores in the kitchen though. But otherwise either or, not both.

[ckosidows]

I've started leaving my phone out of my gym time as well. It feels like the right thing to do, but it definitely feels odd or like I'm different somehow. At the gym I go to everyone listens to music while lifting and it's almost surreal to look around while resting between sets to see everyone is dialed into their own little world.

I wonder what gyms looked like in earlier generations (I'm only 27). Did people talk more?

[reaperducer]

Did people talk more?

Yes. Especially before the televisions arrived.

Gyms were well-known social hubs. You'd meet people, sometimes even work out business deals, at the gym.

The isolation that technology has brought us has reduced the number of serendipitous human connections we used to make as a species. It has also turned us into an us-verus-them society because we no longer have large circles of friends with varying opinions.

[foxdev]

Latter seasons of Highlander tell me they were mostly for people to test their rivals out before a final confrontation in another part of the city in the final act.

[efreak]

According to pokemon, gyms exist only as a place for making your pet fight someone else's pet

[gregrata]

shrug before I used my phone for music, I used my iPod. Before that, my Walkman.

Personal music at the gym is not new or anything specific to phones

[christophergs]

This. Music while working out is cheating anyway. Bite down on your mouthpiece and listen to your own inner anguish instead. Or hum.

[fuzzfactor]

>The biggest switch for me would be losing music streaming. What do you use for music on-the-go (at the gym, commuting, walking around, etc.)?

I gave that up too, replaced with live music venues where I could interact with the musicians.

Although depending on the venue musicians and even patrons will occasionally be wearing hearing protection earbuds for isolation.

Without earbuds it can only be better for personal interaction at the gym, etc. too.

When the Sony Walkman came out, those who took it to the gym were more keenly aware they were signaling that they didn't want any interaction there.

Solo commuting I'm just fine with news & talk now. Driving passengers or being one I can better appreciate anybody's channel selction. Nonmusic is too boring for most people anyway.

I get plenty of live music and that's all I really need.

If you already have to be on a computer a bit to begin with, might as well make the most of it.

When you do close the laptop and revert to normal in-person interaction, you can always walk away from the PC with mere cellular voice, if you really need that, for the duration.

Twenty years ago smartphones didn't have touchscreens. But they would take messages.

When that was the only thing you were carrying around, all you could really do was talk & text like anyone else.

But when you had your laptop, the built-in IR or USB interface to a top smart phone was what made it smart to begin with.

As a virtual COM port device, the analog modem in your phone was then accessible to Windows no differently than the analog hardware modem the laptop used when hardwired to a phone jack having a dial tone.

Even laptops without built in modems back then still had hardware COM port connectors just like desktops, which could be used with external hardwired phone modems (or used for local hardwired RS-232/TTY within the generous cable length limitation without need for modulation/demodulation).

But the cellphone was about twice the speeds the office was getting with 56K hardware modems.

From anywhere you could get a cellular signal.

This was years before each cellular company began to slowly roll out data plans as the phones got _smarter_.

Which were geographically limited ridiculously by comparison for many more years before data coverage got to where it is today.

Anyway you could get to your office network directly by dialing in to (one of) your target server's phone number(s) (and tying up that landline as long as you are connected).

Without having to go on the internet, so security could be through the roof by comparison.

Alternatively you could dial in to any ISP's phone bank when you needed to get on the web.

This could even be simply done routinely from a different Windows partition, physically separating personal from business for instance.

Would that make it a sandcastle compared to a sandbox?

Even with only a common single bootvolume you could connect to two networks at the same time using two modems, using the built-in Dial-Up Networking in Windows 98. You could become a bridge this way and security could be not so good.

You just pointed & clicked your selection(s) and they negotiated or autodialed if necessary.

So many offices had internet that you would almost always be fine to just dial in to that one place, and with more than one modem using more than one phone line W98 could be configured to communicate much faster than 56K using modem sharing.

And with a laptop you had all the power and software for business & internet connection you needed without having to wait for phones to get more powerful on their own.

With progress phones are much more popular & stylish now.

Posing with a touchphone, one-handed at a characteristic near-45 degree angle as an interested observer, recognizable in silhouette, whether standing (walking) or sitting, is not something that was ever seen in the 20th century.

Likewise the accompanying silhouette with the other hand on the touchscreen as an active operator.

Under laboratory conditions over a period of years, redirecting time otherwise spent in either pose toward actual scientific progress can have much more ideal outcomes when it comes to milestone accomplishments.

Anectdotal data, YMMV.

I do get the idea that more traditional poses such as yoga-style might be more preferable to a great many.

Rumour has it your cognitive capacity can be increased.

[AndrewUnmuted]

Believe it or not, there are still MP3 players (or, more commonly known these days as Digital Audio Players) out there that kick ass.

This Sony device [0] even offers Tidal integration. Not sure if Spotify is among the list of supported services.

[0] https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1538890-REG/sony_nwzx...

[ttamslam]

The price on this absolutely blows me away. It would be far more cost effective to buy a cheap android, download spotify/tidal/etc. via wifi, and sync all playlists offline.

[sneak]

Yes, but audiophiles who don’t know what an ABX is wouldn’t be able to pretend they can hear the difference in the sound of the DAC.

[smichel17]

I remember seeing someone link a $40 player recently-ish in a HN thread (I don't feel like searching but I think the context was hiking if you want to try and find it). Agreed that price is outrageous but they're not all like that.

[johnchristopher]

So, basically, you replaced a multipurpose device for specific devices you take with you if needed. Not really pre 2008 tech.

[wussboy]

Thanks for your great response. I’ve often considered doing something like this.

I wonder if there is a way to accomplish many of these things while still carrying your phone? For example, what if your phone took 5 minutes to unlock? And didn’t give notifications until you unlocked it?

Just a thought.

[DeusExMachina]

I put my phone in "do not disturb" mode for the entire day. Removing notifications altogether was a great improvement, without getting rid of the phone altogether. You go from responding to picking it up when you decide to.

[volkk]

As someone who has been doing the DND mode for over 8 years now to avoid expecting notifications, it instead has taught me to reach over to my phone every 30 seconds to check the screen for any new ones :(

i've started to just chuck it somewhere if I'm trying to focus

[wheels]

I go through and explicitly disable notifications for almost every app. I don't really need to be interrupted to find out someone liked a photo, or that there's something in the news, or that it's raining, or that some new shit shipped from eBay. So even if I do check my phone, I pretty much only have (and then only silent) notifications for messengers. My wife and close friends know that if they need to get me immediately that they can send me a real SMS.

When I got a new phone about 6 months ago, I spent about a week horrified by the number of notifications that I was getting by default.

[HenryBemis]

Same. I wanted to minimize use. The only apps that "speak" are: phone, messaging, Skype. The group chats are muted, and I also disabled the auto-refresh of emails. Now unless someone is sending a message just to me, or calls me, the phone stays silent. All other apps (gym, etc) have notifications off completely.

That, and keeping the charger in a remote corner, helps to park it and forget it.

[efreak]

Don't DND, use airplane mode (if you want antitheft or incoming calls, disable cellular data and wifi--prey and other antitheft can toggle data by text message if necessary). This way you've still got it available for manual use when necessary, without the wait to turn it on.

Also, disable face/fingerprint/pin unlock, and use a longish password, so unlocking it isn't convenient.

[mdiesel]

My OnePlus (not sure how widespread the feature is on android) has a Zen Mode, once started you can't use the phone for most things until the timer elapses.

A bit different, but good if you want a break.

[SamBam]

It's interesting, but I wonder if

1) The majority of people disable the feature after a short time (if they needed it in the first place, it's hard to maintain the self-control to keep it enabled, when it's presumably trivial to disable), and

2) Whether the cognitive effects remain, even when it's locked, because the mere presence of the phone makes you think about it, and it being locked makes you think about what you're missing.

[Insanity]

If you don't have a oneplus, I suggest the "forest" app. Helps me tremendously. http://forestapp.cc/

(No affiliation, just a happy user)

[wussboy]

I’m going to try this. Thanks!

[jimmyjazz14]

My personal experience on this is like the article above states, merely having my phone on hand caused me to think about pulling it out or looking at it even if it was turned off. It was not till I hid my phone away in my glove box or somewhere I rarely accessed did I feel truly free from it. I will say having done this for months now I really don't miss it and only go grab it when I absolutely need it (usually for work stuff). The result is that I feel much less distracted and more focused on my life as it happens, also my view of the world seem more grounded in reality now.

[alanbernstein]

I have a way to do this: I have a smartphone without an unlimited data plan. I can use it out of the home for calls, texts, notes, photos, music, and cached maps, without being tempted to surf the web or whatever. If I need a map or a web browser urgently, I can still use data, but I pay a relatively high rate for it. I call this a "self-imposed vice tax".

Of course, on wifi, it can do everything that phone with a normal data plan can do. I just don't bother, because most of the time I'm on wifi, I have a laptop available. Especially these days.

[jcynix]

Besides the DND features of the OS, I use the Macrodroid app on Android to silence my mobile based on location and time. For example my devices will turn off WiFi, dial down audio levels and brightness at a certain time in the evening, even while I might use it. This is a cue for me to put it aside if I still might access it.

Also, based on location, I automatically disable all notifications while at the gym or in a restaurant. If a had an urge to access it anyways, I might set the brightness to zero too.

[rnin100]

This can be done with Tasker. It's the most advanced phone app for automation. I believe it would be simple to make a task showing a screen that cannot be dismissed whenever the phone is unlocked.

[wussboy]

This is the sort of answer I was looking for. Unfortunately I’m on iPhone. :(

[opan]

It looks like IFTTT is available for iOS, and I've heard it compared to Tasker.

[stagehn]

Thank you for sharing these experiences

[ocdtrekkie]

I have my smartphone and am not the OP, but I spent several years on Windows Mobile which supported almost no apps, so it was kinda like a dumbphone.

I think people often overestimate their need. People act like they can't live without Google Maps, but 90% of them take the same route to work every day. I would argue if you aren't traveling outside your local area, you have zero need for a mapping app. It's true you may not be notified of a slightly faster route because of some unforeseen event, but the difference is probably a couple minutes at most, and you should know your local streets well enough to get along anyways.

There was the rare event where I couldn't participate in some restaurant's rewards program because they only did it via iOS/Android app, and that was annoying, but it also led me to just use that business less.

[manaskarekar]

This was also my experience with the Lumia 920 (greatest phone + OS combo ever IMHO).

The maps ("Here") on Windows Mobile were actually not bad at all.

Using this phone taught me not to be obsessed with instant mail notifications among other things.

[Spearchucker]

I still use my 950. People get annoyed with me because I don't use messenger or WhatsApp. It does email and phone calls just fine. Anything other than that or surfing the intertoobs can wait until I get to a PC.

[jkepler]

When I was in Europe in 2018/2019 (where they still had decent 3G network coverage unlike my provider here in the USA) I used my Nokia N900 as my daily driver, not as a smartphone but primarily a feature phone with a full keyboard and a Linux terminal for bash scripting on the go. In fact, I used a bash script to track my cash expenses rather than a dedicated app.

[ocdtrekkie]

I just left my Elite x3 behind this year. Best phone I've ever owned. But I consider security updates a must-have, so I dropped it when Microsoft finally stopped pushing updates.

[alanbernstein]

You're right, I don't often need mobile maps. It's just that when I do, it's unexpected.

[apetresc]

Specifically what functionality do you feel is so critical? The only thing I really struggled with at first was:

- 2FA codes, but a self-hosted Bitwarden and a Yubikey solved that well enough

- Maps. This is a legitimate sacrifice, especially for someone with as poor a sense of direction as I have. But between the mapping application in my car and looking things up before I leave somewhere on my laptop, it's not been a huge problem.

[SamBam]

For me: Maps and WhatsApp.

I could probably ditch Maps (by using my spouse's when needed, not sure if that counts...), but I have family abroad and other family here), and kid photos to send etc etc. It's true I could do most of that via email, but the rest of the family is on WhatsApp and I would genuinely feel more disconnected from them then I already do.

[beefield]

You can install whatsapp on a virtual android machine on your desktop/laptop. I did that for a while and used a dumb phone (new nokia 8110) as my main phone and hotspot for a while. I kind of enjoyed it, but a couple of things made me give up for now.: First, abysmally bad battery life when using it as a hotspot (and no auto wifi disable when no devices connected). Second, laughably slow charging. Like, not even net charging when using lots of data via wifi hotspot and even in best case something like 4 hours to charge from empty to full. I am still keen to buy a dumb phone that fixes these.

[SamBam]

I thought WhatsApp needed to verify the device using a phone number? Does that work with the virtual Android?

[codr7]

I got a simple CAT-model that runs KaiOS.

It sort of supports Maps, but is inconvenient enough to kill the temptation to use it for everything.

As an added bonus, it's water proof, doesn't crack when dropped and the battery lasts a week.

[stevensawtelle]

I think music/podcasts would be a big sacrifice for me. I suppose I could do a dedicated MP3 player for music, but especially with podcasts the live-updating feed is something I really enjoy.

[3np]

You could host this and couple it with whatever would be a good client/player for you: https://github.com/airsonic-advanced/airsonic-advanced

[bentcorner]

If you have a Samsung phone a more gradual step in this direction is their maximum battery saver mode (my S7 had it, at least, not sure about more recent models). It turns the phone into close to a dumb phone (iirc no social media apps, maybe a web browser). Only a subset of preapproved apps are available in this mode.

[frosted-flakes]

> not sure about more recent models

My Galaxy S10e has it.

[blackearl]

I would think it's better to develop the will power to not hop on your phone whenever available, take a breath, smell the flowers, but also still have the option of something as amazing as GPS. Not really interested in going back to pulling over and looking at a map these days.

[wussboy]

Will power don’t really work that way. Studies show it is an exhaustible resource and if you’re using it all day to fight of pulling your phone out of your pocket, you won’t have it for anything else you do in your day (and you’ll STILL probably pull your phone out!)

The people with the best will power have organized their lives so that they don’t need will power.

[reificator]

I was under the impression that those studies not only failed to replicate but in fact more recent studies found the opposite...

[bonoboTP]

Furthermore it was also shown that whichever "theory" you believe about willpower (consumable resource vs habituation like a trainable muscle) will impact your performance. If you believe it's not a finite resource but something that gets more plentiful and strong the more you use it, you will appear to confirm this theory.

Source: this is the specialty of Veronika Job, see her work here: https://tu-dresden.de/mn/psychologie/iaosp/sozial/die-profes...

[perlgod]

"muh GPS" is definitely the most common argument people give me. Garmin still makes car GPS units. I have one and it works well.

To be fair, I was able to refrain from mindless scrolling all the time. But with the phone nearby, I always wanted to mindlessly scroll during every random quiet moment.

I liken it to an alcoholic keeping an ice cold beer on his desk all day, but doing his best not to take a sip. Why subject yourself?

I experimented without a smartphone and I am happier as a result. This will probably not be the case for everyone. But, if you ever feel like a slave to your own technology, I highly recommend trying it out.

[Jtsummers]

Developing will power is one of those "easier said than done" things. At the end of a long day of work, without my phone, I find my ability to focus is shot. Especially since I can't work out like I used to, a few more weeks and I should be able to again. Workouts physically exhaust me but restore my mental focus. There are lots of things that drain people (emotionally, mentally) that leaves them in a similar state, where having the device present is just too strong a temptation and then an hour or more is gone.

[frereubu]

For as long as you have to exert it, will power takes up energy that can be used elsewhere more profitably.

[apricot]

Not OP, but I also made the choice not to carry a phone (not even a dumb phone) because I don't want the inconvenience of carrying an interrupting device everywhere I go.

There's a phone at home and one in my office for emergencies, but other business gets done by email, on my terms.

I live in a (non-US) large city, walk or bike to work every day and don't own a car. We have a pretty good public transit system which I used to use a lot, pre-covid.

The biggest inconvenience of not carrying a cell phone was that I didn't have access to live bus and subway schedules, so I would sometimes take a suboptimal route to my destination.

My schedule is done on paper in a pocket schedule book that I always carry. I also carry a pen, a simple watch, a Swiss army knife, and a small flashlight, all of which I use at least once every day. I also always have a book in my bag, for reading while waiting for the bus, the doctor, or other things and people.

I look things up on the Internet at home.

I'm not saying I will never carry a phone, but it seems that not having a phone is the right choice for me at the moment.

[frodetb]

I've done the same thing, and started out with an extremely dumb feature phone. Maps and IM were the biggest losses, and meant I needed to plan activities to a much larger degree before going out.

I'd have details settled with friends before leaving my connection to the group chat. I'd plan out my route in google maps and try to memorize where destinations were and how to get to them.

Of these two, only the lack of maps is a real step back. I've come to appreciate the need for clear planning that comes out of not having my group chats with me constantly.

The feature phone was doomed from the start, since it only had a 2G connection which is going away. But then that phone broke after a rainstorm, and I got a Nokia 2720 Flip running KaiOS. It has 4G, can work as a wifi hotspot, and has a version of Google Maps that is surprisingly not-terrible. With that, I lost my only real pain points. AND I have a cool retro looking satisfyingly flippy flip-phone.

I highly reccommend it to anyone who wants to listen.

[sumtechguy]

I have found many smart phones have a low power mode. This basically makes the phone into a phone that can run voice, text, and maybe one other application. The upside is the battery lasts like a week. If it was not for hangouts I probably would put my phone in that mode for that reason alone.

[bcoughlan]

I moved back to a Nokia feature-phone for a few years. I missed out on social events by not having WhatsApp. The real problem app for me was the browser. Now I have a smartphone now with some modifications: rooted, removed Play Store and Chrome. If I want to have a browser for a few days I download and sideload the Firefox APK. If I get into bad habits I just remove it again.

I also have a Kindle, and instead of reading on the computer I use the "Send to Kindle" extension so I can read them in depth later. It's just too hard to focus on the screen, especially because I'm usually browsing articles as a means of procrastination anyways.

People find it bizarre and hilarious when I explain my smartphone setup, but compared to a few years ago the reactions are much more understanding, because even non-tech people these days recognize that they have a problem. It has also done wonders for my attention span. I wonder if the reason public discourse has gone to shit is because people struggle to consume info longer than a tweet.

[tboyd47]

There are different levels of “getting rid of.”

I have several smartphones but don’t use them as phones, and don’t carry them on my person. For cell service I have a dumb phone (Alcatel MyFlip) I keep on me.

I’ve operated like this for years and find no loss of convenience at all. Whatever I need a smartphone for (2FA codes, podcasts, Discord, etc.) I can do at home with Wi-Fi. Everything else I can do on a computer. The only thing mildly inconvenient is having to ask people for directions sometimes (which is really only inconvenient for them, because of their embarrassment at not being able to explain how to get to their own house).

Overall, it definitely helps with social etiquette and living in the moment. It makes you more in tune with other people.

Having to keep a smartphone on you at all times to function is a burden, instead of the other way around. It’s a burden placed on you by corporations and governments.

[searchableguy]

It's not practical. Many malls and chains have moved to digital order/payment systems. What I recommend is installing a very learn custom ROM and use vpn + pihole. You can find and install one of those social media blocklist.