[EForEndeavour]

What sort of WPM did you have on normal keyboards, and whta have you been able to train up to on your current one? I plateaued at roughly 35 WPM on Dvorak as a teenager and have been hesitant to commit to major layout changes since then, despite the ergonomic promises that a lot of them make.

[readingnews]

I am the minivan owner... I find that my WPM did not move significantly. In fact, I would argue that for the most part my typing speed is the same. Now, when it gets to coding, or {}, [], things slow down just a tiny bit, but with todays editors, this can be minimized.

I will admit, I have been in IT for many years. I feel like unless you are an accountant, or someone that has to hit {} [] constantly and can not deal with macros, that the 60%, 40% keyboards help a lot. Most CS/sysadmin/engineer type people are good with layering anyway.

I will say this, on a normal keyboard, you have to hit shift to do a few odds and ends. On a 40%, you would be amazed at the speed that you pikcup "oh, hey, {} and [] are over here, just I have to hold down this one key, just like shifting on an normal keyboard... ok, I get it" and then by week two you no longer think about it. Just my $0.02. I did, however, test my typing speed on one of those online things. I really did not change much after about a month from my previous keyboard to the minivan.

[chrisco255]

I code in JavaScript and typing {} and [] is like 90% of the work.

[sascha_sl]

You can keep the normal layout on a 40%, you just wouldn't have number/function/nav keys without layers

40% is not just plank, and I personally find the ergonomics of a plank board to be rather bad compared to staggered, unless it's split.

[simias]

I definitely agree with you here, I like split ortho a lot (I'm typing this on an ergodox) but I'm super doubtful of any benefit for non-split orthos. My arms don't sprout from the center of my chest!

[alpaca128]

I actually prefer non-split orthos but with a split layout. What I mean with that is something similar to split keyboards but angled and within one case. This is still very ergonomic but more portable. Combined with columnar stagger and reduced to about 42 keys I find it extremely comfortable to type on.

[simias]

Oh yeah, when I say non-split I mean fully rectangular layouts where the left and right hands are perfectly parallel. If you have clearly separated left and right sides that counts as split for me, even if they're within the same case.

That being said obviously you have more flexibility if you have fully separated sides, but it does tend to make the keyboard harder to carry around.

[EForEndeavour]

That reminds me, I consider losing arrow keys a dealbreaker. I use them frequently enough to navigate both text and code in various contexts (except in Vim, which I don't use exclusively). I already hold modifiers to jump to next/prev word boundary, page, start/end of continuous data ranges in Excel, etc. Admittedly, I'd probably adapt, but I'm held back by the belief that any ergonomic advantages of moving to wasd or hjkl would be wiped out by reduction in speed and muscle memory for me.

[Symbiote]

I had similar misgivings, so I chose an ErgoDash, which has a few more keys than some of the minimalist offerings. I have the arrow keys in a horizontal row (which took some time to adapt to), but I can still use them with Alt/Ctrl/Shift modifiers fairly easily.

However, I'm planning on making something like this[1] "trackball Dactyl Manuform", where the trackball under the thumb can be configured to use different modes -- e.g. a key toggles it between being a mouse and being arrow keys, and another locks it to vertical/horizontal. It could be combined with holding Alt/Ctrl/Shift.

I made a gallery of split/ergonomic mechanical keyboards if you'd like a quick overview of other options. [2]

[1] https://medium.com/@kincade/track-beast-build-log-a-trackbal...

[2] https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/

[ZeroGravitas]

Do you happen to have an opinion on the best split keyboard for someone who uses and likes a Kinesis Advantage but would like a more portable alternative?

Or even suggestions on what I'd need to google to find opinions of people in that group?

[Symbiote]

This Reddit [1] might have some ideas.

Anything 3D/dished like the Advantage isn't going to be very portable, just because of the bulk. I suspect many DIY versions are also fairly delicate, as a result of the 3D printing process.

For a flat, split keyboard you could look for one where someone has already designed a case that goes some way to protecting the keys, or make such a case yourself. I wouldn't choose something with this few keys, but [2] is on the first page of the Reddit, and shows what I mean -- unlike the keyboards where the "case" is just a sheet of acrylic, this one looks like it would be OK stuffed in a bag. Many of these keyboards use a Pro Micro controller, which is known to have a weak USB port. Using a wireless keyboard, or choosing a different controller, might also help.

You will have far more options if you're able to solder the components onto the PCB yourself. Otherwise, there are a few companies like falba.tech that sell assembled keyboards.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/

[2] https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/ir7axv/a...

[ZeroGravitas]

Thank you!

[gonehome]

HHKB has worked well for me, it moves the arrow keys closer to your right hand in a much better location than most 60% boards default.

You can easily use your right pinky to hit Fn and then use the arrow keys that are right under your fingers (I think it's actually better than normal keyboard arrow key placement).

I don't think I could go below a 60% board because having the number row is too useful and dealing with function layers for that (and memorizing symbol placement) seems like an unnecessary pain for style.

[SuperPaintMan]

With light switches and a compact layout it's not too bad for navigation. My default for arrows is LeftThumb+HJKL, so it's quicker and more natural then diving for the arrow keys. I also have overloaded alphas (Ctrl on a or ;, Shift on Z/?, etc) so Ctrl-Shift-Up maps to A+Z+LeftThumb+K. Seems a little bonkers but it only took a few days to adjust to my GergoPlex [0][1]

The bigger issue with adding more keys to the mix is that with heavier switches (35g+) the amount of work/stress done by the hand can be more then a traditional keyboard. But even with heavier switches it's often faster then having to move your hands around the physical board. And once you factor in things like combos you can just map End to something like QW or whatever works for you. Programmable input devices are _really_ weird!

[0] https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rRS_TOYuIQQ/XhRERox3moI/AAAAAAABE...

[1] https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex

[simias]

I don't have arrow keys on my board but I have something better: I have a special modifier that lets me use readline-style commands (C-n for down, C-p for up, C-h for backspace, C-d for delete etc...) anywhere without requiring the app to support it, since it sends the compatible down/up/backspace/delete/... keycode instead.

I finally don't have to worry about this or that program not supporting this or that binding, it's uniform everywhere.

You say that you already use hjkl (I assume?) in Vim, so clearly you have the muscle memory for that, why not extend it to all applications?

And there's so much more to programmable keyboards. Modifier keys that input characters when pressed on their own, allowing for dual function. Some people like remapping caps lock to control, others to escape. Why not both? My keyboard has a key that behaves like control when chorded and like escape when pressed on its own. The best of both worlds!

[readingnews]

On most 40% layouts, incredibly, you can keep the arrow keys. Look it up.