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Apple Event 2020 (apple.com)
60 points by yigitdemirag 2106 days ago
17 comments

It is very Apple to market a cost cutting move of not including power adapters with their products as an environmental decision. Like it certainly does help the environment, but does anyone actually believe that is the motivating factor?
They've spent a lot of money aggressively pursuing environmental concerns before many of their competitors (like renewable power, carbon neutrality, recycling programs, etc.).

While I can appreciate the reduction in cost likely was a factor, I wouldn't doubt that the environmental aspect was also a genuine concern.

Their ideal customer is somebody who upgrades devices frequently and then participates in the trade-in programs, but the adapters and such are not part of those trade-ins. So if you get a new phone every year for 4 years, you have 4 adapters. It's not a far stretch to imagine that their own employees said "You know, this feels wasteful" and management said "Hmmm not only is it an environmental problem, but we could also reduce costs."

But it's impossible to say for sure from an outside view.

> While I can appreciate the reduction in cost likely was a factor

Another factor is the EU slowly closing down on their loopholes for nonstandard chargers. They are probably trying to minimize costs in preparation for the eventual reckoning (i.e. which production and packaging chains will have to be modified).

Oh that's a factor I hadn't considered. Yeah, you're probably right that that's part of it too!
That change is going to be on 1 side of the cable, it has nothing to do with the PSU.
Step 1 of reducing your environmental impact is reducing your consumption. If Apple really cared about the environment, then they wouldn't encourage a new phone every year when a phone can last for 4 years.

Reduce, reuse and recycle.

Do they encourage people to buy a new phone every year?

I don't think most people get a new phone every year, hence the "is this worth the upgrade?" Conventionally speaking, most tech reviewers tend to suggest that the latest model usually isn't worth the upgrade if you have the last model, and only in some cases is it a compelling upgrade from two releases ago.

Release a new phone every year isn't the same thing as encouraging everyone to upgrade every year.

Anecdotally, very few people I know get the newest phone. In fact, most of them tend to get second-hand phones that are at least a generation or two behind. That said, these are generally on the middle- to lower-middle-class individuals.

I'm a geek and I could afford buying the latest phones, but in practice I almost always get a phone at least 2 generations behind.

That said, looking at people in town, there's a significant number who do get the latest model. I always wonder how they can afford it.

If you sell your 1-year-old iPhone as soon as new ones are available, you maximize the secondhand sale price. After that, the value you can get will decrease. (The same is true of the value Apple gives for their trade-in programs.)

So in some sense, if you replace your phone as soon as a new one is available, you pay about 50% of the new phone's cost every year. So it's not quite as expensive as you'd think. (And yes, iPhones sell for a little over 50% of their purchase price after a year.)

Mm that's the point of the trade-in program! They even did a whole video showing LIAM (I think), the robot that disassembles old iPhones so the parts can be reused in new iPhones.

I can't find it these days because their website has gotten more and more full of information, but they used to have a page that specifically said they had a plan to eventually manufacture all iPhones from old iPhone parts.

If you participate in Apple's trade-in programs, consumption isn't an issue. They have a greater capability to successfully recycle the components than anybody else will (e.g., if you send your used phone to some other place to be disassembled).

That's sort of the point I'm making. Reducing consumption comes before reusing and recycling.

"If you participate in Apple's trade-in programs, consumption isn't an issue."

If that's how you feel, then Apple's marketing has done its job of removing environmental concerns from your purchasing decision even though there is still a lot of waste in buying a new phone yearly.

I think nobody getting a high-end phone can argue in any way that they're environmentally conscious, at least in that area of their life.
Apple iPhone is really great for reduce perspective thanks to its OS support and great SoC. A problem on Apple is repairability.
They could give the members of the trade-in program an additional discount for not including the charger. It’s not a reason to make the charger an add-on cost for everyone.
I have a drawer full of power adapters. I do.
I have a drawer/box full of unused chargers and cables that came with my devices that would argue otherwise. I wish Apple would have stopped bundling them in a long time ago. Make them an optional free add on at time of purchase.
Yes.
My screen has never displayed video of a higher quality. With instant load and zero lags. Stunning! Is this 60 FPS?
They came up with a new Apple Watch (Series 6) that measures blood oxygen content! If that actually works as advertised, this feels like enough of a reason to upgrade.

My wife has Series 3 and I have Series 5, but I haven't seen a major difference between the two. Series 5 is slightly sleeker and smaller, but the updates didn't feel important enough for her to upgrade.

They've got to fix the battery life. I tried the apple watch earlier this year and returned it a couple of days later. After using a whoop (where I get 5 days of battery) the less than one day charge makes the product pointless.
Huh. I've got a Series 2 that still lasts nearly 2 days on a single charge.

I know sometimes something in the software update can glitch and cause aggressive battery consumption. I wonder if you were affected by something like that (which is something they should address to prevent from happening in the future).

Nope. Apple itself says the watch will last 18 hours so if you've got one that lasts for 2 days, thats great.

https://www.apple.com/watch/battery/#:~:text=Apple%20Watch%2....

That's assuming a 60-minute workout, using apps throughout the day, and the GPS model (which is slightly more energy-consuming anyway). The workout is really what'll get you; those switch the heartrate and other bio-monitoring from passive to active, which greatly increases battery drain.

If you use your Watch more passively, all-day performance is not out of the question. It all depends on your individual use case.

Besides, 18 hours should be sufficient since you ought to be getting more than 6 hours of sleep a night anyway. Somewhere in that offtime is when you can charge. I do it overnight, but plenty of people charge during their morning routine (shower, etc.) and say it charges more than enough to last all day.

My S4 easily lasts the best part of two days. Perhaps you had a software glitch?
S5 has worse battery life due to always-on display. Presumably if you toggle that, your battery life is much better.
Since I don't sleep with the watch it's not too big of a burden to charge it each night. I just wish there was a better charging mat so I don't need to connect it to a charger.
Any word on battery life in the new model?

My expectation is each time the chip will be more efficient, but they can choose to use that on a brighter screen/more features, or better battery life.

This is true, I've started wearing it with a dead battery, and charge it only when going out.
I'm curious how they can get an accurate blood oxygen reading while not having a sensor on the bottom of the wrist.

If I recall correctly a finger pulse oximeter requires a sensor below the finger which records the absorption of infrared light.

Some Garmin watches already have this, Garmin says...

>Accuracy of Wrist-based Pulse Ox

Pulse Oximetry (Pulse Ox) readings are available for certain Garmin wearables. It can provide an estimation of the user’s peripheral blood oxygen saturation (SpO2%) at any given time the feature is accessed. The feature can also be set to track in a continuous manner during a period while the user is asleep. For certain devices, it can also be used to track periodically throughout the day along with a view of the user’s altitude or elevation.

While every effort is made to ensure a high degree of accuracy, there are certain limitations that can cause inaccurate measurements. The user’s physical characteristics, fit of the device, and presence of ambient light may impact the readings. Garmin may release device software over time to improve aspects of the measurements. The Pulse Ox data is not intended to be used for medical purposes, nor is it intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease or condition.

Excessive motion and the position of the device can impact the accuracy of the readings. It is important to keep your arm/sensor still for approximately one minute for best accuracy.

This does work best but the sensor and light source can be on the same side of the skin using light reflected from within. This probably requires more separation between light source and sensor and some clever algorithms to handle different skin tones and ways of wearing the watch.
Garmin watches require you to be really still when measuring "Pulse Ox". That's why they automatically do it only during sleep.
I believe they must be doing something slightly different than a normal plus oximeter because of that - and also it takes 15 seconds to get a reading.
The real question the lady should have asked about what the watch can do is play songs from Spotify without your iPhone near you, like when you're running.

Spoiler alert: You can't.

I have a series 3 and I got a beta from spotify to stream music, it worked with WiFi and the phone turned off. I haven't tried LTE as I haven't enabled that, but I suppose it should work fine.
Ugh. Bad commercial. Apple deviating from their dystopian earnestness rarely works out. Federighi sort of pulls it off, and I suppose the old "I'm a mac" commercials managed.
Pretty sure that's Spotify's fault, not Apple.
You are correct, Pandora's app does have offline support in the apple watch, and I just got a beta in spotify where I can stream music from wifi in the watch to a speaker with the phone turned off.
Pretty sure Apple doesn't expose the correct APIs to allow this on the GPS model of the watch - at least that was the case when I last researched this.
Not true as of Watch OS 6, I believe.

I'm referring to streaming via cellular. Not sure about playing offline via non-cellular though, I haven't looked into that.

I searched a bit - I think you're correct, and also offline support looks to be in beta in the Swedish version of Spotify, so maybe it's actually coming at some point.
I'm in Canada and I got a beta for wifi streaming from the watch, where did you find about the offline beta?
Great to see touch id in the button - sure hope that comes to iphone this year!
Why'd they have to put the tech people in the basement though?
Say what you will about the Apple spaceship campus, that was a pretty photogenic appearance it made.
Here's the only thing I'm really waiting for today... the Watch SE pricing. $279... gets it into "high quality Fitbit territory".
You can get a Series 4 w/cellular on ebay for $289. If you're buying one for your kids (with Family Setup) that's the best in-price.
with that, if they would let me hook it up to my ipad (I dont have an iphone) id buy it in a heartbeat
I've been thinking about getting an iPad. However, I can't imagine paying extra for a cellular model Apple Watch. Would you be able to get emails, messages, calendar stuff on a Wi-Fi only Apple Watch paired only to an iPad when you don't have your iPad on you?
hmm I guess thats a good point - I dont leave the house much so hadn't really considered that.
Would you say that cheaper one is a bad option (series 3?)? I'm not too likely to get one any time soon, but the cheaper they get, the more I'm considering it.
It simply has a smaller screen. The common annoying parts (not being always on, notifications about breathing/recording a walk etc.) are anyway more important than tiny performance differences.
USB-C. 'bout time!
Agree, but USB-C seems so fragile compared to Lightning.
At least the fragile part is in the cable, so you can replace it if it breaks. Lightning has the fragile part in the phone.
I thought the fragile part of USB C was the thin part in the port than goes in between the two sides of the plug.
removing power adapter.. to save the environment. Also you have to buy it as an accessory for $30+ ....
I think the point is that it is 2020. Most people won't have to buy it.

Power adapters that use a USB connector have been commonly included with a large fraction of consumer devices for at least a decade now. Most of us already have several that we aren't using.

USB power adapters have also been by far the most common when people explicitly purchase a power adapter, such as when they want a higher wattage adapter to charge faster than the basic one that came with some device, or they want to replace a single port adapter with one with multiple ports to better utilize their outlets.

Result: probably 95+% of consumers in the US who would buy an Apple device already have plenty of USB charging ports available.

Saving the environment by making me pay for the accessory separately and have it shipped in a different truck with extra packaging
It still comes with the USB charging cable; they're just removing the brick.
If I remember right, Apple Watch is the most popular smart watch on the market — meaning many people have had one already. Those people don't need a new adapter. It's like the iPhone: if I already have one, I don't need another adapter (lord knows I have enough of them).

It's definitely not great for new customers though, and it absolutely should not be $30, but for people like me it's a positive move forward to reduce waste.

Yea but you'll still have a cable. I'm sure you'll find some sort of USB device to plug it in to.
Basically a stealth price increase
Yeah. That presenter did a pretty good job of saying it with a straight face, too.
This link crashes Edge on Windows Arm https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24483910
What are the exact differences between Series 3 vs Series 6 ?
Off the top of my head: always-on display, additional sensors (compass, blood oxygen, ECG, more advanced accelerometer for fall detection), higher resolution display, different speaker system I think, slightly different form factor, uhhh... that's all I've got immediately but I think there's a bit more.
Better processor. Wife has series 3 and I have a 4 - the 4 is 50% faster. I wouldn't buy a series 3 as it's just a bit too slow.
Oh absolutely right, I dunno how I missed that!
what about altimeter?
Another good point! Like I said, I was just going off of what I could remember offhand. :)
So will they talk about the feud with Epic and the app store?
Sure, why wouldn't they!?
is there no new iPhone then?
The rumor is October
Not to be too cynical, but is this Apple watch "solo loop" coming in a bunch of fixed sizes a means by which they reduce/minimize the ability to buy/sell used Apple Watches?

Or at their scale does it not really make a difference?

EDIT: nvm lol, forgot that you can just swap out the loops still

The silicone material they use tends to get beat up enough after a year or two that you'd probably want to replace it anyways if you buy a used watch.
good point
I imagine it's possible to buy a used Apple Watch and replace the 'solo loop', or did I misunderstand the presentation?
yeah you're right, I misunderstood / forgot that you can still swap the loops out
I wasn't sure myself :)
Cool, a blood oxygen sensor. What a revolutionary new sensor that Garmin watches have had for only 3 years now.
Basically none of the technology Apple showed off in the original iPhone release was 100% brand new that no one else had, they just put it all together in a way that had never been done before.

Garmin has that, but does it integrate the same way?

Apple rarely introduces breaking tech. They release optimized tech that makes good products. Rarely first to market - they experiment, learn, adapt, and go in when confident.
I think in this case Garmin does watch features quite well, but the target audience is quite different. For the varieties of fitness tracking, granularity of data, resilient packaging, and battery life, garmin takes the cake. But on the flip side, picture quality and apps are much better on Apple's devices.
"Some other company that wanted to differentiate from our market-leading product developed a useful feature before we prioritized it so better never add it to our product because they did it first. No user wants a feature that they could find in another product!"
I hope for the day there's no more "they were doing this X time ago!" comparisons.
One day we'll make custom watch faces...
Check out PineTime instead, the open-source watch.
Thanks! Looks very interesting!
why? because they make a company that falsely claim they're innovating look bad?
Because it's a useless comment to make. I'd say the same of Android or Fitbit if they added a feature the other already had.

It's just unnecessary. The people who want or have one or the other won't care that another watch already had it if their chosen watch is adding the feature.

I bought a Garmin for running a couple years ago. It’s not bad, but for 250/300$, the UI and overall user experience is so far behind any Apple product, I will never buy another one.

So yes features are good, but making them easily usable is also important. Being first isn’t the only thing that matters.

At least when you buy an Apple Watch you know your watch isn’t going to stop working because the company you bought it from let themselves get infected by ransomware
Garmin's watches are meant to be used offline primarily, so they didn't really break.
“No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.”
It sounds like you have a few qualms with this sensor. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
Apple Watch Series 6...totally uninspired update. I was hoping we might get a glucose monitor/sensor, instead we get a blood oxygen sensor.

Apple's just coasting at this point. I was considering getting the iPhone 12, but at this point I'm expecting a similar dud launch next month from Apple, so I'd rather give my money to Nvidia for an RTX 3080.

Stop mailing it in Apple.

Is there a glucose monitor/sensor that works from the wrist without puncturing the skin?

I've seen patches on the the upper arm that have to be replaced every week or two, sensors that clip on the ear or the skin that stretches between fingers, and things that have to be surgically implanted under the skin, but my understanding is that all of these, even the non-invasive ones, have to be approved by the FDA as medical devices, and come with a pretty substantial legal responsibility.

A blood oxygen sensor helps literally everybody, even the diabetic, while a glucose monitor--assuming it can be made reliable from the wrist--benefits a smaller set. A large set, to be sure, but still a smaller set than "everyone."

I was hoping for the same, but considering the regulatory and health issues for not getting it 100% right, I'll give Apple some credit for what its done rather than ding them for not yet being able to package in what hasn't been invented by anyone yet.

I'm certain they're spending large amounts to make it happen, since they could easily double their sales once they roll out that feature.

At this time at least, measuring blood oxygen has more consumer demand and impact than measuring glucose.
More than 100 million Americans have diabetes or pre-diabetes. Numbers are huge and more importantly the feature (glucose monitoring) is much more critical to their health.
Coasting all the way to massive sales
Like Microsoft under Ballmer right?
I dunno, let me check their stock price and see if wall st agrees with you.