[uzakov]

Not sure if your comment is asking about those things or implying that what I said is incorrect.

Healthcare costs: I personally do not have experience with USA healthcare system. In terms of UK healthcare system I have mixed feelings: key reasons(short list):

1) While it's free, getting many basic things(like blood, urine tests, ultrasound scan) is complicated if you have no symptoms. It's much cheaper and better for the health to treat things at the earliest stage possible and it's not always easy to do so in the UK, even with some private health insurance.

2) Relatively long waiting times for procedures, A&E[1] etc

3) Biased(and potentially selfish) reason: healthcare costs need to be looked both in terms of general population and personal level. If you are healthy and young your chances of using healthcare services are lower.

Education: can't comment as haven't studied in the USA and people from outside of the UK(me) had to pay tuition fees in the UK

Vacation(I might be wrong on this one): from my understanding speaking to some tech working from the USA, amount of days is only 5-10 days lower than than of the UK for many tech companies.

Above does not mean UK is better or worse than USA, I love it here, I love British countryside,it is majestic! [1] https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/nhs-services/urgent-and-eme.... [EDIT] First sentence replaced "what I wrong is incorrect" with "what I said is incorrect" and added some commas

[DanBC]

> While it's free, getting many basic things(like blood, urine tests, ultrasound scan) is complicated if you have no symptoms.

I feel like you've misunderstood this.

If you don't have symptoms but are asking for testing then you're asking for screening. We have strict criteria for screening because it has potential to cause harm.

https://www.gov.uk/topic/population-screening-programmes/pop...

Here's a blog that explains why testing people who don't have symptoms causes more false positives. https://www.jackiecassell.com/moonshot-moonshine-and-false-p...

> It's much cheaper and better for the health to treat things at the earliest stage possible

This is often incorrect.

[uzakov]

>I feel like you've misunderstood this.

>If you don't have symptoms but are asking for testing then you're asking for screening. We have strict criteria for screening because it has potential to cause harm.

Blood/urine test =/= testing. Also from the link you provided: "Screening is the process of identifying individuals who may be at higher risk of a disease or condition amongst large populations of healthy people." People who are not at risk might want to do blood/urine test to check if they currently have underlying issues.

> Here's a blog that explains why testing people who don't have symptoms causes more false positives.

The link you provided talks about Covid19 situation, don't think that was part of the discussion.

>> It's much cheaper and better for the health to treat things at the earliest stage possible

>This is often incorrect.

Last time I checked that was the thing suggested, can you please clarify and elaborate why you say so?

[DanBC]

> Blood/urine test =/= testing. Also from the link you provided: "Screening is the process of identifying individuals who may be at higher risk of a disease or condition amongst large populations of healthy people." People who are not at risk might want to do blood/urine test to check if they currently have underlying issues.

This sentence doesn't make much sense.

> Blood/urine test =/= testing.

If the patient has symptoms then it's a test. If the patient does not have symptoms then it's screening.

> People who are not at risk might want to do blood/urine test to check if they currently have underlying issues.

But this is screening, and screening is often harmful, which is why it's strictly controlled.

The blog is not only about covid-19, it uses Covid-19 testing as an example. But the information about screening, especially false positives, applies to the type of blood testing you're talking about.

If you want a different blog: https://understandinguncertainty.org/node/1279

> Last time I checked that was the thing suggested, can you please clarify and elaborate why you say so?

The problem is of "over testing", "over diagnosis", and "over treatment". https://ebm.bmj.com/content/23/1/1

Your claim is that early detection means that treatment can start earlier, and that this reduces side effects and prolongs life.

My claim is that often screening sometimes does not prolong life, and sometimes causes harm.

https://www.hardingcenter.de/en/early-detection-prostate-can...

Take 1000 men aged 50. Give them yearly screening for prostate cancer. Take another group of 1000 men and don't give them prostate cancer screening.

In both groups about 7 men will die from prostate cancer, and about 210 men will die from any cause. But in the screening group 160 men will have a false alarm and needless biopsy, and 20 will have needless treatment. (And the treatment for prostate cancer can leave people incontinent or impotent).

See also this for a discussion of 5 year survival rates and why they're problematic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24022426

[uzakov]

Interesting links! Thanks for sharing

[pkaye]

I was trying to search online to compare student debt in UK vs US. Any idea why the below link shows a high student debt in England?

From https://www.statista.com/statistics/376423/uk-student-loan-d...

> In 2020, students graduating from English universities will have incurred an average of 40.28 thousand British pounds of student loan debt...

From https://studentloanhero.com/student-loan-debt-statistics/

> It’s 2020, and Americans are more burdened by student loan debt than ever.

Among the Class of 2019, 69% of college students took out student loans, and they graduated with an average debt of $29,900, including both private and federal debt. Meanwhile, 14% of their parents took out an average of $37,200 in federal parent PLUS loans.

[uzakov]

Can't comment about Wales and Norther Ireland but can make an educated guess about England and Scotland.

University cost of English unis are higher than of Scottish unis. Eg please see Edinburgh university link https://www.ed.ac.uk/tuition-fees/find/undergraduate/2020-20.... For "Artificial Intelligence and Computer Science (BSc Hons)" the cost for Scottish students is £1,820, where for Home - RUK its £9,250. I would assume that many Scottish families can cover the £1,820 cost, where £9,250 is more difficult to cover for more families