[deltron3030]

>You might see that as complaining but I see that as trying to fight for a really useful feature that will help grow the community and make it easier for folks to build applications in the end.

The change in mindset you're demanding from the devs is impossible to accomplish through comments I think. You'd need to develop personal real world relationships with the devs to be able to have such an impact, or create pathways for people with this mindset into the community.

It's the mindset of DHH or Taylor Ottwell what makes their product oriented frameworks more product oriented. Core devs and core parts of the community having this mindset is necessary as a fruitful foundation for more product oriented feature requests I think.

[nickjj]

> It's the mindset of DHH or Taylor Ottwell what makes their product oriented frameworks more product oriented.

Yeah I totally 100% agree with this. I think it's very much so why Rails and Laravel won't be going anywhere anytime soon. As it turns out most people who are into web development are trying to build products and services.

But I will say that every time I've talked to Jose or Chris (I don't know them personally, I just mean in chat), they always say the best way to offer suggestions or feedback about the language or framework is to post on the forums. It's just unfortunate the community is so against feature requests or open to talking about things.

It just feels like the forums have the same regulars shooting down ideas from anyone new, or feature request threads get little to no replies.

[deltron3030]

>It's just unfortunate the community is so against feature requests or open to talking about things.

I don't have that impression, but I also got into Elixir knowing that it's not as product focused and more hands on.

For me it was more important that I don't hate the language and programming paradigm I'm mainly using. For purely business oriented stuff or quick MVPs I can still use no-code tools, which in 2020 is really the way to go if you're solo or a very small team.

>It just feels like the forums have the same regulars shooting down ideas from anyone new, or feature request threads get little to no replies.

Most on the Elixir forums seem to be employees and hardcore programmers, not founders and business people. I think even the main devs are employed, this changes how you think about prototyping features or tiem savings if you're never really in that situation and work fixed hours.

I think that the forums are a great learning resource and people seem nice, I mean you can't say that they aren't pacient with you.