[CCstal]

Not at all. Its a step in the right direction. Who wants to go to work full of sweat or go meet friends quite a few km away and show up sweating.

People forget that bike riders, once its past a certain amount of distance will sweat + are exposed to the elements. Sure ebikes help with this. But nobody in my country is going to go to work in a full suit + on a bike.

[yodsanklai]

> Not at all. Its a step in the right direction. Who wants to go to work full of sweat or go meet friends quite a few km away and show up sweating

When considering what the right direction is, you should consider convenience, but also environmental impact. It's a trade-off to be made.

[Tade0]

It's not that clear cut.

Humans are terrible at turning food into energy, and only the most efficient (vegan) foods have a footprint below 1g CO2/kcal.

Your typical vegan on a bicycle has a footprint of 22g CO2/km and that's the best you can get with human-powered transport.

The Ami has a driving footprint of 7g / km in France, a 5.5kWh battery, which has a one-time impact of ~450kg, and seats two.

Long term it's the less impactful opttion really, especially if you take into account that only 2% of the population is vegan.

[yodsanklai]

Not convinced by your conclusion

> Humans are terrible at turning food into energy

Electric bicycles come to mind. They would provide a more direct comparison with the Ami, but being 50 times lighter, I don't see how the Ami could compete.

> a one-time impact of ~450kg

This amounts to 20000km! That's a lot of cycling before the Ami becomes less impactful. Also a battery lifetime is about 5 years.

> Your typical vegan on a bicycle has a footprint of 22g CO2/km

I didn't find this number. "CO2 emissions from the average European diet, which is another 16g per kilometer cycled" [1]

With this number, that would be 30000km of cycling before you even drive one meter with the Ami.

> in France

France electricity production generates very little CO2. In most other countries, the footprint would be much higher making the Ami an even worse option.

It's hard to argue that a 500kg vehicle can be more efficient than a 10kg one (or even 20kg for an electric bicycle).

That being said, it'd be great if Ami could replace more polluting cars for people who dislike cycles

[1] https://ecf.com/news-and-events/news/how-much-co2-does-cycli...

[Tade0]

Electric bicycles come to mind. They would provide a more direct comparison with the Ami, but being 50 times lighter, I don't see how the Ami could compete.

True, but the level

This amounts to 20000km! That's a lot of cycling before the Ami becomes less impactful. Also a battery lifetime is about 5 years.

A lot of cycling, but not a lot of commuting. Could be done in 4 years.

Also the most significant factor contributing to a battery's degradation is not age, but the number of cycles. Even at the low estimate of 500 cycles(consumer grade battery), it should be good for 35 000km. But since it's likely an automotive battery, one could expect for it to withstand 1000 cycles or 70 000km.

I didn't find this number. "CO2 emissions from the average European diet, which is another 16g per kilometer cycled" [1]

I've read the source and it says:

"at 16 km per hour, a cyclist is burning about 4 kilocalories per kilogram per hour, while the relative metabolic rate of “driving to work” requires no more energy than somebody going about their daily activities: 1,5 kilocalories per kilogram per hour8."

It takes this from * the Compendium of physical activities, 2003* where it's written that:

  0101014.0Bicycling<10 MPH, to work or for pleasure

It's not at. It's less than.

The updated source(2011 Compendium of Physical Activities) says:

  01010 4.0 bicycling, <10 mph, leisure, to work or for pleasure (Taylor Code 115)
  01011 6.8 bicycling, to/from work, self selected pace
  01013 5.8 bicycling, on dirt or farm road, moderate pace
  01015 7.5 bicycling, general
  01018 3.5 bicycling, leisure, 5.5 mph
  01019 5.8 bicycling, leisure, 9.4 mph

They're not actually using the figure for 16km/h - the real figure at this speed is closer to 5.8 calories, which using their parameters yields 27g CO2/km for an average European.

It's hard to argue that a 500kg vehicle can be more efficient than a 10kg one (or even 20kg for an electric bicycle).

Problem is, the 10kg one is powered by a ~70kg biological machine, which isn't very efficient - that's my entire point. Also the 500kg one seats two and can sustain 45km/h for probably 50km or so - not an easy feat for your average cyclist.

But I agree - pedelecs are the most efficient as personal transportation.

[giardini]

CCstal says >"People forget that bike riders, once its past a certain amount of distance will sweat + are exposed to the elements.">

Driving home yesterday in a light rain I saw a gentleman in a bright yellow soccer shirt riding a bicycle slowly on the sidewalk. A wide stripe of dark brown mud ran up his back and onto his helmet! As I drove past I just had to laugh and wonder what the front wheel was doing to him!

No one owned a bicycle without fenders when I was young; today finding a bike with fenders is difficult. And some of today's aftermarket fenders are ridiculously flimsy.

I do not understand the absence of fenders on today's bicycles.

[agumonkey]

market dynamics .. people want bikes for leisure not long distance trip fully clothed

[giardini]

I think it is simply an uneducated market. When I was a kid I went everywhere: short trips and long. But I _always_ needed fenders b/c I was always running through water somewhere.

On a modern bicycle unless you're racing (and even then sometimes), fenders are a necessity, not an option.

For example, how many motorcycles don't have fenders? Cars?

[amwelles]

This is why I love it when offices have showers at work. Commute in, shower, show up for work fresh. No need to do cardio outside of my ride in and out, so it’s saving me time in a way because it’s built into something I’m already doing.

I know not all offices have showers, but it was something I looked for when I was deciding on a coworking space a couple of years ago.

[CCstal]

The office I currently work in does have one shower. It wouldn't be feasible if everyone had to use it. The early gym birds use it, the bike riders don't. And this is an office of 60 people.