[Razengan]

Let's say Apple allows everything that Epic etc. is asking for. Would it really be better for everyone?

---- The problems with letting all apps advertise external payment systems:

• Someone may publish a free app to avoid paying anything to Apple, and then charge users [an asston of] money to ""unlock"" via an alternate payment system.

• Users may not be able to see a list of all in-app purchases (and their guaranteed prices) as they can on the App Store, without downloading the app.

• Sharing your payment details and other information with multiple entities, and having to continually trust each of them (e.g. to not abuse or leak).

• Confused users may clog up Apple's customer support with complaints related to third-party payment systems.

• Angry users may demand Apple to offer refunds for shit that was paid for via third-party payment systems.

---- The problems with allowing third-party app stores on iOS:

• How will iOS sandboxing be enforced for apps delivered via third-party stores? Will those apps still have to be submitted to and signed by Apple?

• Store apps would need the privilege to write binaries on your iPhone. How will that privilege be regulated to prevent abuse? e.g. what happens if a store starts writing malware?

• Users may sometimes have to wait longer for an app to update on one store than on others (as already happens on Steam vs GoG).

• Developers would no longer be assured that they will have access to literally all the users that iOS has, by publishing on just one store.

You would have to submit to each store, wait for approval on each of them, update for each of them... to come close to the userbase that you can currently access by just publishing once on the App Store.

• Developers will no longer all play by the same rules. One store may allow some content while another may prohibit it.

For example, take porn: Should any third-party store be allowed to serve apps with "adult" content, or will they still ultimately be bound by Apple's ruling on such matters?

• iOS Parental Control settings may be ineffective on other stores (and browsers if third-party engines were allowed too).

• If an app or game is exclusive to a store that a user isn't already using, they would have to create a new account and download an additional app just to access that one exclusive.

• Not all stores may be compatible with the iOS backup and restore system, or the APIs for app-thinning and on-demand resources.

[JiNCMG]

"Store apps would need the privilege to write binaries on your iPhone. How will that privilege be regulated to prevent abuse? e.g. what happens if a store starts writing malware?" Thats the thing. Epic doesn't want Apple to have access/approval to anything. They want OS level access! It's in the court filings. So at that point Parental Control, agreements made with carriers, everything is out the door aka it's like buying an Android phone from some unknown company on AliExpress.

You get all these people screaming about how unjust Apple is! Everyone has been doing this for decades in different markets.

[bigiain]

It’s not just off brand AliExpress Android devices that already show all those problems, it’s top line Samsung devices as well. As well as GooglePlay, I need to deal with Samsung’s shitty App Store, and the Oculus one if I want to use the GearVR.

[nodamage]

> The problems with letting all apps advertise external payment systems:

I don't think this list is very compelling because external payment systems are already permitted for physical goods and it doesn't seem to be a huge problem that you give your credit card to Uber and Grubhub and Amazon separately.

> The problems with allowing third-party app stores on iOS:

On the other hand I largely agree with this, mandating third-party app installs would lead to a malware and privacy disaster and should not be forced, except perhaps as some kind of developer mode where you are thoroughly warned that you're going out of bounds of normal app distribution.

[Razengan]

> as some kind of developer mode where you are thoroughly warned that you're going out of bounds of normal app distribution.

Yes, but enabling that mode would need to be a very deliberate process that nobody could possibly get “tricked” into. Think of the people who are not so tech-savvy at all.

Something like a sandboxed developer/hacker environment that requires a computer to enable and gets disabled on every restart (to help with panics where shit behaves unexpectedly) would be ideal, and should satisfy everyone.

[captn3m0]

If any company wants your payment details, they can still have them by promising services outside the app.

[JiNCMG]

And you would have to do this on a web browser, which provides the separation from the App Store and giving the parent, who is purchasing $20 worth of vbucks for their kid, "Pause" because they usually get the "Apple" Payment prompt instead of the enter your credit card. This alone is worth it.

[captn3m0]

I don't see why a browser has to come in? Uber does in-app payments on its own because they are for services outside the app.

That's what I meant.