[skissane]

> 3. Many people from outside the EU, even though they're not considered "white" by Westerners, look white from the outside (think of e.g. Arabs) and the differences are purely cultural. Within a few generations you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them and "white" people.

The US government officially considers Arab people to be "white". [1] Some Arab Americans disagree with this and believe they are not "white", other Arab Americans identify with the "white" label and want to keep it. The former group have been lobbying the US government to create a separate category, e.g. "Middle Eastern and North African", thus far non-successfully.

Unlike the US, I don't believe most EU countries have a formally adopted definition of "white" (the EU as a whole certainly doesn't.) But, just like in the US, it would be wrong to think there would be a single viewpoint. So the statement that Arab people are "not considered 'white' by Westerners" is a bit dubious – some Westerners no doubt think that, other Westerners actually do think Arab people are "white", yet other Westerners just don't think about the concept "white" or its definition that much at all, or think that "white" is an arbitrary category which should not be used

[1] https://www.census.gov/topics/population/race/about.html

[bonoboTP]

Generally speaking, this question in this form just doesn't come up much in Europe as, "who is white" is much less of a discussion point than in the US, along with all "race" discussions. This is not to say that racism or xenophobia don't exist in Europe, but animosity exists inbetween "whites" as well, and people can hate Arabs without thinking about it in terms of "whites" vs Arabs, and rather thinking about it as "my nation" vs "strangers". Not saying this is much better, just trying to point out that not all parts of the world are obsessed with the American flavor of the concept of race. For one, it's definitely never ever used officially as a concept in many European countries.

[anoncake]

In fact, the idea that races even exist is considered outdated and racist. France recently removed the word from their constitution because of that. The same is being debated in Germany.

[usego]

That doesnt remove the fact that older generation people and many younger too in EU still have "built in firmware" to instantly classify my / foreign culture people. And I doubt this will change for the next generations.

And BLM demonstrations in europe... Sorry, but this is ridiculous. Those are more about protest against goverment ant police than BLM.

[joelbluminator]

"Not saying this is much better, just trying to point out that not all parts of the world are obsessed with the American flavor of the concept of race" We've just witnessed BLM demonstrations all over Europe though. I agree it's less of a thing in Europe, but it definitely exists.

[joelbluminator]

Perhaps some will consider Arabs white (which I doubt), but still many will see them as "other", which is the same thing, especially if they are muslim.

[skissane]

I'm an Australian from a Catholic family of British and Irish descent. My aunt married a Muslim man of ethnic Albanian descent (not actually from Albania, his family come from the Albanian minority in North Macedonia). I've met members of his family on a number of occasions over the years. I never thought of them as "other". I've never really thought about the question of whether he is "white", but his skin has always been paler than my own

[usego]

Australia and US are historically a mix of immigrants from all the world so things are much different there than in "solid culture" countries where xenofobia is a part of life as a result.

[joelbluminator]

He's probably not super religious or you're super progressive. While I respect and appreciate what you said, many many people still think in terms of us and them.

[skissane]

Most Albanian Muslims are not "super religious". His family is about as Muslim as my own family is Catholic (i.e. not very devoutly), but I believe his family's degree of religiosity is pretty much the norm for Albanian Muslims both in Australia and in Europe.

I am definitely not "super progressive".