[brainless]

I didn't think about it before but just thinking now - I know more Indian origin tech founders in the US than Black tech founders in the US.

I find that a bit surprising suddenly. I'm an Indian who has never been to the US so I can not imagine the ground reality. But it's odd when I think of this. And I follow a good chunk of tech stuff online from various founders.

[strikelaserclaw]

Well ask your self are the Indians founders from the upper castes or lower castes in India? I read an article which states that Dalit's make up only like 2-5% of all the Indians who come to America. African Americans are like the dalits of india in that they have faced systematic discrimination which has probably effected every part of their existence for a long time, it is not something that can easily change with the waving of a magic wand.

[brainless]

Yes I think these are points we have to accept but many are not willing to. I myself come from a lower caste, although not Dalit. But I'm lucky to come from a region where caste system wasn't strong many decades back even (Bengal). But I can imagine, from news and other sources, what it might have done to my social existence if applied to me. I'm thankful to say the least.

[srtjstjsj]

There are 3 million Indians in the US and 50million Blacks.

But the Indians passed through a strong selection filter from the billion Indians in India, which is both restrictive toward people with low economic potential and permissive to people with high economic potential.

Blacks in the US are like the so-called "backwards" castes in India, with much less opportunity and who aren't coming to the US for grad school and careers.

[Ancapistani]

There are ~1.4 billion people in India. The subset of those who are able to afford to immigrate to the US is a small fraction of that - a fraction that by definition has either the financial means to do so or extreme motivation and persistence.

In light of that, it’s not at all surprising to me that people of Indian descent in America are disproportionately successful.

[brainless]

There are 1.4 billion people now. Indians have been doing some wonderful things in the US for a couple decades now. Which means even previous generation expats were probably having more chance at success than Black Americans?

I am happy with where Indians are but I'm just trying to understand, in the light of recent situations, how deeply Black Americans feel they don't have any chance at success within their own country.

[Ancapistani]

Even going as far back as when India was a British possession, the Indians who were able to immigrate was still the best-suited for success. In fact, I’d expect that the disparity was greater then that now - the caste system was even more strictly enforced, and it took more resources to move halfway around the world in 1960 than it does in 2020.

[mytailorisrich]

I don't know if it's a general cultural trait, but my feeling is that Indians in Western countries tend to invest massively in education and point their children towards 'practical subjects: tech, medicine, law, business.

I think that they are over-represented in all these subjects compared to their demographic weight in the general population.

On top of that, there is a significant migration of Indian engineers to the US/UK/etc.

[brainless]

Right, but do you think we would have continued that if, like other commenters here are sharing, Indians could not succeed - if they were systematically stopped from succeeding?

[mytailorisrich]

Black people are not systematically stopped from succeeding.

Here in the UK Indians 'succeed' because, as I mentioned, they invest massively in education. If you look at the grammar schools (selective state schools) exam, quite often the majority of children in the room are Asians.

The same route is open to black people, to white people, to anyone. The issue is much more complex than claiming that a specific group is victimised.

People are, in the vast majority, hired on merit. If you have an opening for a software engineer you can only hire someone who applied for that job. Few black people in tech starts at 6 years old.

[Ancapistani]

I think this is a difference of language.

It’s clear that Blacks are less likely to succeed in the US than Whites. One can phrase that as “Blacks are disadvantaged” or “Whites are advantaged”. Both are true statements, but one leads to positive actions and the other to negative.

As a society, our goal should not be to eliminate the advantages of one group above another. We should be trying to provide more advantages to everyone, both as a population and individual groups.

[athms]

Being black isn't the determining factor. Consider that black immigrants tend to be more successful than black Americans. They earn more than black natives and are more likely to be employed. Likewise, white immigrant groups outperform their native cohorts. The children of black immigrants are more likely to go to and complete college than native blacks (and whites) and are less likely to drop out of high school. The children of black immigrants also earn more than native blacks or first generation immigrants.

[mytailorisrich]

We can't provide "advantages" to everyone. We can provide opportunities (maybe that's what you mean) by investing in education from an early age, including services related to education like nurseries and extended hours.

Then, people take the opportunity, or their don't.

Race should not be relevant. My problem with current climate is that it perpetuates race as something to notice and to treat specifically when we should aim for the opposite.

[charlesu]

The current climate perpetuates race as something to notice? I'm sorry but was the previous climate different?