[haubey]

I'm a young guy, 25, with no underlying health conditions. Could stand to lose 10-15 pounds. Covid put me on my back for a good two weeks. Even now, five and a half months after I had it, I still get some headaches and chest pain if I do anything too strenuous.

I don't really consider myself a long-hauler, based on what I've read of their symptoms I'm way better off. I know at some point reading stuff like this is fear mongering because anybody can drop dead for any reason at any time. But I still check everything every day, to make sure that I'm alright. It's hard to communicate to people who haven't had it yet that you don't know what's going to set it off.

[teh_klev]

I had plain old regular flu in January/Feb 2019, it almost knocked me flat and arrived on the same week I was moving house just to amp things up. It wasn't until June that I actually felt normal again and didn't feel like sleeping 13 hours a day.

Having read about and listened to reports about covid "long haulers" (look up Vincent Racaniello's YouTube channel[0], his podcast team of virologists, doctors and immunologists discuss this frequently) I'm making pretty damned sure I'm taking every precaution to avoid becoming infected with coronavirus, especially now that I'm in my 50's. I don't think you're fear mongering, for some people succumbing to covid can leave some pretty nasty long term effects.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/user/profvrr

[ouid]

Just an FYI, succumbing to illness usually refers to dying of that illness.

[lol768]

I'm not sure how inaccurate it would be to describe death as really a "pretty nasty long term effect" in itself.

[teh_klev]

Yes, you're right but sadly I can't go back and edit now.

[itisit]

Classic HN comment right here

[LandR]

Yeah, I had a flu about 8 months ago. It was utter hell.

I was in bed for a good week and a half, the fever and just feeling like I was dying was awful, at some points during it I couldn't walk from bed to the en-suite bathroom without feeling like I was going to pass out.

Even about 4 months or so later the cough persisted to the point where I had to go to hospital to get my throat and lungs x-ray'd as I was coughing up thick bloody mucus.

It was hell, also rashes which I presume were caused by the fever are still annoying me now occasionally with random outbreaks of horrible itching.

Fuck that noise. I think that was the first time I've had the flu. If covid is even worse than the flu then I want no part of it!

[bsder]

> If covid is even worse than the flu then I want no part of it!

Amen!

Anybody who says that Covid is "just" a "bad flu" has never had a bad flu.

"Bad flu" is at the level of wanting to kill yourself but being unable to because you simply can't move.

[hawkice]

When I had the flu a few years ago, I regretted not having a will. I texted a family member how to get my things in order, as that was all I could physically muster.

Then I got better. It wasn't as bad as the flu could get, but I felt what it feels like to have your body stop so totally that even going to the bathroom to vomit is a herculean task, danger heightened by the stairs I'd stumbled past. It felt like I was simply going to die. And many have it worse, even among those who live.

Of course, sometimes it's not too much. Broad range on these things.

[latchkey]

Tons of anecdotal reports in this group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/COVID19survivorcorps/

[jliptzin]

Such a strange virus. I’m 34, just found out I have the antibodies. At no point in the last 7 months did I feel the slightest bit sick at all. So I guess I’m just one of the lucky ones, or it was a false positive. Hope you continue to heal and get back to normal soon!

[jb775]

Any idea what your ballpark vitamin D situation was prior to catching Covid? And how much sunlight exposure were you getting on average?

My doc noticed my vitamin D level was a little low ~5 years back so he recommended I take some over the counter vitamin D supplements....which I've been taking casually since then. Obviously it's anecdotal, but I rarely ever get sick.

[EarthIsHome]

Could you describe what you mean by "too strenuous"?

I don't know if I ever had it (I still get tested occasionally), but I don't ever feel 100% anymore. I don't know if this feeling is psychological or if it has something to do with COVID-19.

[faitswulff]

You should read the article on so called "long-haulers," by Ed Yong, a fantastic science writer: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/covid-19-...

> COVID-19 has existed for less than six months, and it is easy to forget how little we know about it. The standard view is that a minority of infected people, who are typically elderly or have preexisting health problems, end up in critical care, requiring oxygen or a ventilator. About 80 percent of infections, according to the World Health Organization, “are mild or asymptomatic,” and patients recover after two weeks, on average. Yet support groups on Slack and Facebook host thousands of people like LeClerc, who say they have been wrestling with serious COVID-19 symptoms for at least a month, if not two or three. Some call themselves “long-termers” or “long-haulers.”

> I interviewed nine of them for this story, all of whom share commonalities. Most have never been admitted to an ICU or gone on a ventilator, so their cases technically count as “mild.” But their lives have nonetheless been flattened by relentless and rolling waves of symptoms that make it hard to concentrate, exercise, or perform simple physical tasks. Most are young. Most were previously fit and healthy. “It is mild relative to dying in a hospital, but this virus has ruined my life,” LeClerc said. “Even reading a book is challenging and exhausting. What small joys other people are experiencing in lockdown—yoga, bread baking—are beyond the realms of possibility for me.”

[dvt]

This is an atrocious, fan-flaming, scientifically-inept article written to solely get clicks. It's peak fearmongering.

[faitswulff]

More of a Mayo Clinic person, eh?

> COVID-19 symptoms can sometimes persist for months. The virus can damage the lungs, heart and brain, which increases the risk of long-term health problems.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/i...

[dvt]

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768351

N = 143

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6930e1.htm

N = 270

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/...

N = 100

The rest of the studies cited by Mayo are all in the same range, feel free to check. Mayo Clinic or not, you're seriously going to draw conclusions over this?

[faitswulff]

What, pray tell, does it take for something to be considered "scientific" in your mind? Those sample sizes are nothing to sneeze at for a brand new pandemic. And what conclusions do you think anyone is drawing other than "some percent of people are affected by covid for the long term?" Especially on the comments for a post detailing a significant percent of covid positive athletes being affected by myocarditis?

[timr]

That article is terrible. It's anecdotal, a biased sample from a group of people who self-identify as "long-haulers". If you conduct a survey of a group of anti-vaccination activists, I'm sure that a high percentage will tell you that vaccines gave their child autism.

Moreover, this:

"A quarter of respondents in the Body Politic survey have tested negative, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have COVID-19."

Okay. I guess it doesn't mean that, but it means that you should be skeptical of the claims of causality.

[partyboat1586]

I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be true though. Post viral fatigue has been a thing since before COVID it just never got any attention because it affected too few people.

[pmiller2]

I had idiopathic post viral hypersomnia in graduate school, from a bad respiratory infection. For more than entire semester, I could do nothing but sleep for 12+ hours a day. On one occasion, I slept through an entire day. I even fell asleep in the student union once with my laptop in front of me. Needless to say, it wasn't there when I woke up.

No treatment was really able to help me. I was already on adderall, and, while it could keep me upright, I felt like a zombie the whole time. I ended up consulting a sleep neurologist, who basically said they could try "activating" antidepressants (I was already on one), or stimulants, which I was also already on. I don't know if modafinil was a thing yet, but I never heard them mention it.

I thought my life was over. What could I even do with my life, if I always had to sleep 12-14+ hours a day? No doctor seemed to be able to do anything, there was no specific cause, and it's such a rare condition that most people don't know it exists. That, along with the stigma that comes with invisible disabilities (and, believe me, this certainly was disabling) almost made me want to give up.

Then, I started getting better. I didn't know why I got better, but, at that point, I didn't care. I had my life back.

All in all, it was an awful experience, which I wouldn't even wish on someone I hated.

[timr]

"Idiopathic" means that the cause is unknown. So when you say "idiopathic post-viral...from X", you're trying to imply something that cannot be implied. One may have happened after the other, but the "idiopathic" means "it's unlikely to have been caused by it".

Not for nothing: I had idiopathic hypersomnia in graduate school, too -- it tends to happen when you're depressed from being in graduate school. As you were already on an antidepressant, and it was a suggested treatment for your illness, it sounds like this is a more probable cause than the one that you're trying to imply.

[perl4ever]

>If you conduct a survey of a group of anti-vaccination activists, I'm sure that a high percentage will tell you that vaccines gave their child autism.

If people have vague symptoms that are uncertain and ambiguous, then their opinions on the nature of their illness are probably not terribly useful or accurate.

But if there exists a severe illness, it seems almost certain that there are some people out there who have a mild form of it that is ambiguous and uncertain because there is a spectrum.

More generally, I believe that evolution implies that diseases evolve in a manner such that people find them hard to identify. Because humans are pretty ruthless at eliminating diseases that catch their attention. HIV is an example of a virus that had gotten very close to coexisting, but then people noticed it and have been trying to wipe it out. Vague chronic problems that are blamed on the victim are inherently what everything logically has to become in the long run.

To take the argument to the extreme, even hypochondria must be a physical disorder, even though of course like cancer etc. there might be many causes that are arguably not the same.

[timr]

I'm not claiming that it's impossible that there are long-term Covid symptoms. It's clearly possible: we know that it happens to a non-trivial percentage of people who are infected with influenza, and other common viruses.

What we don't know -- and what articles like this ignore -- is how common and serious the symptoms are. And asking a group of people, one-quarter of whom haven't even tested positive for the virus, to self-report everything that has them feeling crummy, is not science.

The Atlantic is not a scientific journal, but their "science writer" should at least be aware of this basic standard of evidence, and at best, avoid the temptation to spread panic based on speculation.

[perl4ever]

>is not science.

Like you say, it's the Atlantic, not a scientific journal. I prefer to say "not terribly useful or accurate" rather than "not science".

[wheelie_boy]

A lot of people need to have control of their lives.

One manifestation of this is when they look at people that have bad things happening to them, they come up with a list of how they can avoid that thing happening to them.

Sometimes those things are very reasonable - I'll avoid these dangerous behaviors, I'll engage in these good behaviors, I'll avoid those areas, etc. But sometimes the threats are not the kind that you can really avoid. Sometimes people respond by blaming the afflicted with having poor intrinsic attributes, as opposed to their own superior attributes. Sometimes people respond by simply disbelieving the afflicted, discounting evidence that they would have considered otherwise. Because it is simply too taxing to really consider the risk.

I don't know you from Adam, I have no idea if that's what's motivating you, but what you said reminds me of what other people say in that situation.

[haubey]

It's interesting. I played a round of golf, on a golf cart, a day for a few days last week and by the end of the third day I was out of it. The other day I lugged an 80 pound window A/C up to my fourth floor walk up and it wiped me out for three days. But I can go for for a 5 mile walk and be pretty much fine.

[partyboat1586]

I'm surveying people with similar experiences to you. I have three questions if you don't mind answering them:

Did you ever test positive for COVID-19?

Do you lift weights or do strength training?

How much protein do you consume on an average day?

[haubey]

Yes, a bunch of times. I was one of those people that kept testing positive for a few months after I got better. First tested positive in mid march, and then tested positive through May 1st at which point I just stopped doing it b/c everybody (read: doctors) thought I was fine. Finally tested negative mid July.

No

A normal amount? Probably a little more than normal? Like a turkey/ham sandwich or chicken caesar salad for lunch and then some entre for dinner? I'm not a vegetarian if that's what you're getting at

[EarthIsHome]

Thanks for your reply!

I don't think I've been "wiped out" as you say. So maybe this is more psychological or something different. Or if I ever had it, it might have affected me differently. Who knows!

[ArkVark]

It is definitely psychological.

I was suffering daily after COVID when living still under lockdown.

I moved to a non-lockdown country (where the strategy is now herd immunity) and felt better immediately, and now have zero lingering symptoms.

Lockdown and Government restrictions are more suffocating than COVID.

[bettem]

The effect of lockdowns on mental health is undoubtedly large, however I would hazard against ruling a very large number of people with numerous studies & epidemiologists behind them as purely psychological.

[ketamine__]

The number of people studied is very small. It certainly isn't evidence based enough for a report on Cochrane.

[bettem]

Fair point, however the intent of my reply was to not dismiss something as psychological when there isn’t an extensive study on the topic.

[istorical]

Perhaps your anecdata would be more convincing if you put "It _can_ definitely be psychological" because your claim sounds a bit absolute as is.

I can easily offer my own experience with covid symptoms that is quite different than yours but I wouldn't make an "it is" statement because of it.

[mixmastamyk]

Everyone should be making sure they're not Vitamin D deficient. I take a D3, sometimes C/Zinc, and multivitamin a few times a week, with good results.

[outworlder]

I keep seeing this on different threads.

Be careful with supplements containing fat-soluble compounds , of which Vitamin D is one. Vitamin D is a hormone. Careful!

Same goes for any metals.

Taking supplements occasionally shouldn't be harmful. A vitamin D supplement every once in a while should be ok, specially if you are locked up and not getting sufficient sunlight.

The key being "occasionally". However, if you routinely take them, please have a checkup done on the next opportunity you get. If you don't have any deficiencies, you shouldn't need supplementation.

Vitamin C should be fine. It is water-soluble, excess can be disposed of, if your kidneys are normal.

[akira2501]

Also, get your blood work done regularly and do your annual checkups with your Doctor. There's no reason to guess that you might be vitamin deficient, you can just go check.

[mixmastamyk]

It sounds like to two of you (and downvoters) didn't read my post closely enough and/or not up on recent research:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32252338/

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200518/more-vitamin-d-lowe...

Most folks are deficient, and it is difficult, though not impossible to overdo it. Also, if you are living at 35+ degrees latitude, dark skinned, or ~50+ years old, you are deficient.

Your warnings to be careful are careful in the wrong direction, ie. dangerous.

Just found this on the front page!:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096007602...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24366006