[sage_joch]

It is cowardly, though. By refusing to associate with someone simply because they've been bullied, you have given your consent to the bullying and even (to a small degree) participated in it. By the way, no one was labeled a coward for failing to share his commitment; that part of your comment is a straw man. People were labeled as cowards for refusing to associate with him.

[redthrowaway]

As I said, the refusal to risk the harassment he endures comes not from cowardice, but from having other, competing goals that are more personally important. If I, as a 20-something man saw a woman getting raped, I would feel compelled to intervene, at non-zero risk to myself. Would I take the same risk if I had a wife at home with our newborn child? Likely not.

The willingness to expose oneself to the kind of harassment Applebaum endures is derived from one's commitment to the cause. I can certainly applaud those who risk being ostracized by associating with someone being bullied, without condemning those who don't. The bullying is morally wrong, but the reaction of others is neutral.

[shadowfox]

I find this a very interesting discussion.

Back in the days I used to live in quite a politically volatile area in a developing nation while trying to get myself an education. It is the kind of place where it is not uncommon to be knifed/hacked/soundly beaten in a public place in broad daylight for being on the wrong end of the political spectrum or even just for being bothersome.

It was eye opening for the young and somewhat naive me that very very few people were willing to interfere in this. Even to the point of not calling the police or an ambulance while someone slowly bleeds down.

I have had discussions with people on this topic. Every time the response was exactly the same as yours. Also everyone believed that nothing could be done about it. It was socially accepted that this sort of thing happen and all you can do is to keep your head down and go about your own business. People survived by holding the magical belief that whatever was happening to their fellow citizens won't happen to them .. Somehow ..

Irrespective of what we were always told (i.e. That the incredible apathy was the result of a lack of education and an issue endemic to poor third world nations), it appears that the attitude is not as uncommon as it was made out to be.

[redthrowaway]

I never claimed nothing could be done about it, or that people who aren't willing to stand up to injustice are deluded. I said that oftentimes, for those who are not committed to a given cause, there are things they care more about that standing up for that cause would imperil.

I don't advocate doing nothing in the face of injustice, but neither do I condemn those who are unwilling to risk their families and careers over causes they aren't wed to. Morality isn't binary, and so we can applaud those with the courage and conviction to suffer for a cause, without condemning those who lack such dedication.

[Fargren]

Or we could go the nihilistic way, and not even applaud those who act. They are, after all, only being consequent with who they are, and that's hardly special or worthy of praise. Sorry, I've been reading too much Camus...

[erikpukinskis]

I don't have a partner or a child, so what I think I'd do isn't worth much. I'm not even sure I'd have the courage to intervene as a single person. But I hope I would.

And I don't think having a partner and child would change that. Because I don't want my children to grow up in a world where someone would walk by them getting raped and ignore it. I would rather they grow up in a world where their father died to help someone.

The same applies to Applebaum. I don't want my children to grow up in a world where it's considered good and decent for them to be ostracized by people like you for making choices like Jacob's. I wouldn't want them to grow up with a father who supported that.

[reneherse]

"Because I don't want my children to grow up in a world where someone would walk by them getting raped and ignore it. I would rather they grow up in a world where their father died to help someone."

Indeed. Nor would I want to live with a soul that knows it had ignored someone in such distress.

There is no doubt that a cowardly action might be safer under certain circumstances. But who wants to live like that?

[dhume]

Because I don't want my children to grow up in a world where someone would walk by them getting raped and ignore it. I would rather they grow up in a world where their father died to help someone.

Keep in mind when making this decision that it will still be a world where a rape victim can get ignored.

[WiseWeasel]

At least he won't have contributed to that world. If enough others followed the example, it would cease to exist. These people are what we call natural leaders, able to inspire those around them to rise to an occasion to prove their decency and humanity.

[djcapelis]

There are plenty of good reasons to take a more cowardly route. I know plenty of good people who have decided that this isn't a good battle for them to fight. I still respect them, but backing down from this is a cowardly thing to do. If you have a lot to lose it is indeed much much harder to stand up for what is right. That does not mean Jake chose the wrong word. It does not mean you are not a good person either, it just means you're in a bad position to take a stand.

[alexqgb]

Typically, 'cowardly' characterizes those who shy away from difficult or unpleasant situation or tasks that a significant number of people still manage to do. That's the whole point. Shying away is the exception, not the rule, which is why it's given a derogatory characterization. Are you sure that's what's going on here? Or has the abuse reached a point where reasonable people start to say "yeah - this is monstrous, it's way bigger than me, and can I afford to put myself in harm's way as an identifiable individual?"

Also, you're speaking in VERY broad terms when you say "By refusing to associate with someone simply because they've been bullied, you have given your consent to the bullying and even (to a small degree) participated in it." Do you think this is equally true of ALL bullies? That is to say, do you see ZERO difference between (say) a wayward grade-school thug who picks on the most promising target, and armed federal agents who have clearly been given specific orders to harass, intimidate, and coerce a very specific individual for a very specific reason?

[ioerror]

Bingo.