[mschuster91]

> cut them out of the global system; that requires a widespread effort from the top several dozen economies, it can be done however.

The problem is that many of the world's economies already depend on China - either as a source of cheap products or, and that is an increasingly successful threat, for money. China has been buying up, building or financing construction works especially in South Europe (Italy, Greece, Croatia, Serbia come to mind), and are involved across Africa.

[adventured]

> The problem is that many of the world's economies already depend on China

No question. On point 2, it wouldn't significantly harm China by any means. The point would be to humiliate their power aspirations, as China has an intense desire to be respected as a global superpower, to be viewed as a peer with great powers, and so on. It's nothing more than an attempt at influencing China, to exclude them from the global order that they obviously want to be part of.

Isolation is a modestly potent influence weapon, even more so today than in the past. Russia / USSR for example suffered from an intense desire to be viewed as a power peer, they desperately wanted that recognition from the US (Khrushchev sought that out with his populist visit to the US). Authoritarian systems always seek that with a great degree of desperation (they know their rule by force is illegitimate, so they seek outside sources - typically more democratic sources - to legitimize them).

[mschuster91]

> they know their rule by force is illegitimate, so they seek outside sources - typically more democratic sources - to legitimize them

China, however, unlike the USSR and Yugoslavia, has the unique advantage of a population so brainwashed that even Chinese students in foreign countries experiencing the benefits of democratic countries are feared for their loyalty to the CCP. Add to that the Great Firewall / their trend of a "Chinternet" aka Walled Garden for their citizens where the CCP controls the narrative and the informations, plus the strategy of allowing local small scale protests against corrupt public officials so that people vent... China doesn't need anyone's validation, they are too big. Unfortunately. The Western countries should have nipped that shit in the bud instead of selling out human rights for cheap crap.

[fakedang]

In the event of conflict, there's nothing stopping those countries from seizing Chinese assets in their countries. Heck, the US did that with Merck KgaA and Merck Inc during WW2.

[milankragujevic]

The problem is technology. Here's a Serbian perspective:

Huawei's Safe Cities project uses Chinese-owned and operated facial recognition technology, in cooperation with the Serbian Ministry of Interior, aggregating data from a hundred thousands of 4K security cameras around public places in Belgrade, and enabling tracking by person, and not by place and time. It is infeasible to disable this system and use a domestic one instead. China has complete remote control.

Chinese CMEC (China Machinery Engineering Corporation) and Sinomach in general produce and maintain hardware for some of Serbia's coal-powered thermoelectric power plants, and CMEC is building a new power plant block right now. The control software is provided and maintained by Chinese companies. It is infeasible to disable theses systems and use domestic ones instead. China has complete remote control.

Serbian national railway companies (it was split into multiple ones, including Serbia Train (Srbija Voz) that operates trains and Serbian Railways Infrastructure (IŽS - Infrastrukture Železnica Srbije) that operates the railway infrastructure) are partnered and deeply integrated with CCECC (China Civil Engineering Construction Corporation), CRCC (China Railway Construction Corporation) and CRI (China Railway International). The trains are being imported from China, the rail is being reconstructed by Chinese workers, there are Chinese flags next to the rail for it's whole length. The system will be reconstructed with Chinese technology and deeply integrated into proprietary systems. It is infeasible to disable theses systems and use domestic ones instead. China has complete remote control.

This is happening also to Železara Smederevo and RTB Bor, and more is on the way. Chinese military aircraft is planned to replace old Soviet and Russian planes, and Serbia has already imported Chinese UAVs and anti-aircraft weapons, as well as tanks and advanced multipurpose vehicles. Huawei equipment is installed in all cell carriers and powers intenal networks for military use as well as civil interconnections with ISPs both domestic and international, through the Internet Exchanges in Belgrade. More things are planned.

The only things that could be seized, if a conflict were to occur, are the roads and the dumb hardware. That is not useful, but in any case a conflict will never occur because it would be suicidal for a country so deeply integrated with China to try and pick a fight with such an economic and technological superpower. The problem is that this relationship is not symbiotic, it is dangerous for Serbia due to Chinese tendency to ignore environmental laws, manipulate reports and conceal information about accidents or toxic waste, as well as the planned extraction of natural resources that is one of the key points of the Belt and Road initiative.

EDIT: Oh and one thing, before someone calls me sinophobic[1]: It would be equally bad for Serbia if any other country did such a thing. But they didn't, not even Russia had ambitions to make this a puppet state of theirs.

[1] Of course, for all intents and purposes, in this context, China === Chinese Communist Party with the Paramount Leader Xi Jinping, not the Chinese citizens or people of Chinese etnicity.

[fakedang]

I was looking at the issue from a more EU-centric perspective tbf. Not from the PoV of say Serbia or Pakistan.

For most of the aforementioned countries, such as Italy or Greece, in the event actual conflict happens (say Russian aggression with Chinese support/interference), the ties are loose enough that they can be severed with much less economic harm, than say Serbia or Pakistan which are apparently deeply integrated with the Chinese economy.

[milankragujevic]

Yes, in that case it is true. But, they were never in any danger of China to begin with. I look from my own point of view, and I do not like what I see one bit.

Bit by bit, all the vassal states an empire make.

[fakedang]

Take a look at the number of Western European startups and companies being acquired by China already. What the Western governments don't have are bottomless pockets of cash ripe for acquisitions. Instead the only tool they have are hostile regulations against foreign acquisitions. Even then, the allure of money is strong and the Chinese seem to find ways to extract technology, one way or the other.

[D8761D3C]

> China has complete remote control.

Contrast with their "International Joint Venture Policy" for foreign companies operating in Mainland China, where this is specifically forbidden.

[mschuster91]

Holy shit I knew the situation in Serbia is bad but not that it is this bad.