[wyuenho]

The only usable tool for any organization of resistance is Telegram. Anything else is garbage. Here's why:

Bluetooth/Mesh based local broadcast apps such as FireChat and Bridgfy are literally extreme low signal to noise streams of thoughts coming from everyone around you. We don't even need to get to the privacy or security part to eliminate it due to it being completely unusable in areas with more than a couple people.

Signal:

Slow, requires phone number to register and access to contacts. Users still receive messages after leaving a group, and the history still remain on the desktop app. Disappearing messages disappeared on the phone you'll still get it after it purported it have disappeared.

Wire:

Extremely slow.

Why is Telegram good?

* Super fast

* Good balance of security and usability.

* Early flaws in mtproto has largely been fixed.

* You can choose a username, instead of a phone number

* Good privacy settings to select who can find you, how to find you, who can call you, who can pull you into group chats etc.

* Desktop app has feature parity with the mobile apps. No glaring flaws found in Signal.

* Operationally extremely battle tested by successful protests around the world such as Hong Kong, Iran and Belarus.

* Any problems found on the ground, when reported, will be fixed in a matter of days to weeks by Telegram. They are that responsive.

Words of advise to Silicon Valley companies and security professionals in general. Stop bashing Telegram and actually go and try using your proposed alternatives in protests. Most if not all of these so-called secure chats are completely unusable for any organizations trying to avoid being arrested or be used as evidence against you.

[chipotle_coyote]

> You can choose a username, instead of a phone number

Unless this has changed recently -- and I can't find any indication that it has -- this is not true. You can choose a username in addition to a phone number, but you must have a phone number. Your username is effectively an alias for your number; your account is tied to the number, not the username.

[wyuenho]

Good point. I think a better description is both the phone number and the username are tied to the account, and you can change both at will. There are enough privacy settings in Telegram that can effectively turn off having your phone number show up anywhere. You disable contact syncing and even delete synced contacts.

[wruza]

>actually go and try using your proposed alternatives in protests. Most if not all of these so-called secure chats are completely unusable

This cannot be stressed enough. One can do their imaginary layman revolutions and or secret operation in these chats, citing theoretical security features, etc. But when it comes to the real world, they simply do not work, in the same way your todolist mvc example doesn't work for project management and accounting.

[mamborambo]

But in Hong Kong's case, a number of Telegram chat room operators have been prosecuted by the police for anti-government activities. If TG is really secure then this shouldn't have happened.

[wruza]

Well there is a number of ways for identity information to leak, from simple self-deanon mistakes to "third degrees" of key positions who were unfortunate to be caught in action and unable to prevent their chats from being analyzed. A good old handcuffing to a radiator still works too. Your claim can only be strictly true in an ideal world of ideal operation on one side and an ideal human-respecting law on the other.

[FrankBooth]

How can you be sure the chat rooms weren't simply infiltrated?