[ohgodplsno]

>France is dying, because France can't have a private sector because of its regulations.

>France is dying to me. As an 18-yo, I'm seriously concerned on what to do for my future. The country has a super good education system (I would easily say the best in the world, by far) (just check out the ENS's Nobel prize / admissions ratio) but has no companies where people do any work. Most of the brilliant French minds go to work in other countries where it's possible to create and operate a company.

You're young, and you are, quite honestly, fully misinformed as to how things work in France. I know it, I live here, I was born here, I work here.

France is at the forefront of airplanes, rockets, AI, has hundreds of startups and old companies. The only places where the private sector cannot exist directly because of regulation are fully justified. Take the upcoming dismantlement of EDF in multiple companies, leaving 35% to the private sector. Handing off electricity distribution to private entities is quite possible the worst thing a country can do. This is an essential service. And so are all the other ones that limit the private sector. Everything else is absolutely fair game, and evidenced day after day. Things like visa applications ? Handled by private companies. URSAFF & Pole Emploi ? Mostly handled by private companies.

So, yes, we have a sizeable public sector. Yes, we have laws that prevent employers from abusing employees. Nothing that prevents you from starting your company, in any sector. It does prevent you from treating employees like shit. Hell, you can become a micro-entrepreneur today if you want.

[belzebalex]

Airplanes? You're right. Rockets? Ariane is being eaten alive by SpaceX, and the bureaucrats won't move fast enough. They can't even agree on Ariane 6. AI: Yeah France's really good at supplying engineers for Facebook. There's a reason why François Chollet and Yann LeCun have fled away.

Old companies in France don't build anything new. Maybe we do have startups, but do we have successful ones?

Concerning your last point, saying that the current 3000-pages laws are just "preventing you from treating people like shit" is a simplification.

[ohgodplsno]

>Ariane is being eaten alive by SpaceX, and the bureaucrats won't move fast enough. They can't even agree on Ariane 6

Arianespace and SpaceX are not even playing in the same court. Ariane 6 is made for heavy payloads, SpaceX can barely lift medium weight satellites.

Yann LeCun? He was literally already studying in Toronto in the 80s, he didn't flee France for Facebook.

As for startups, yes, we do. Are they unicorns? No, because contrary to HN's belief, they're an absolutely awful idea. Hell, I'm working in one, that's raising 5 millions, has clients throughout european countries and serves millions of daily users.

>Concerning your last point, saying that the current 3000-pages laws are just "preventing you from treating people like shit" is a simplification.

No, really, repeating the MEDEF's talking points without even fact checking them makes you look bad. Especially when it comes from Gattaz. 3000 pages includes the legislation AND the reglementation, including every single decree, as well as copies of the main jurisprudences. And the final 400 or so pages are mostly about what corresponds to what between versions of the law.

I literally have a copy of the work code with me. It's a sizeable book, yes. It's not 3000 pages.

However, there is a lot of added complexity because private entities want to add their own set of rules. So, instead of only knowing work law, you also have to know the 180 pages or so of Syntec when you start working in a french company that does IT. enjoy.

[balfirevic]

> Arianespace and SpaceX are not even playing in the same court. Ariane 6 is made for heavy payloads, SpaceX can barely lift medium weight satellites.

Ariane 6, which isn't even flying yet, is projected to lift 10350 kg - 21650 kg to LEO, depending on the version [0].

Falcon Heavy can lift 63800 kg to LEO in expendable mode [1].

You were indeed correct that they are not playing in the same court.

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_6

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_Heavy

[ohgodplsno]

SpaceX _pretends_ it can lift 63 tons.

In practice, their payloads have been a few tons at best. Whereas Ariane's track record with Ariane 5 is almost flawless and actually hitting those announced maximums.

But sure, trust the company that has regularly been lying on their abilities :)

[balfirevic]

> SpaceX _pretends_ it can lift 63 tons

You can't be fucking serious.

Falcon Heavy launched 6465 kg satellite to GTO, while landing all 3 boosters.

[ohgodplsno]

Yeah. 6400kg. 6.4 tons. Not 63. Nor the 26 they pretend they can do on GTO

[belzebalex]

Seems like you know more about the legal code than I do.

Maybe am I wrong on the root causes. France's leadership in technology is still poor though: all the consumer hardware we use comes from Asia with software coming from the US (I'm sure you can find exceptions to that, and I'm genuinely curious about it), and that's a big problem. The only two french apps I use are the RATP's app and BlaBlaCar once every year.

You can't deny that we're too dependent on key technologies coming from abroad.

[ohgodplsno]

>Seems like you know more about the legal code than I do.

Unfortunately, legal battles with employers tend to cause that :)

> France's leadership in technology is still poor though

This is the root cause. It's not that France is bad technology wise. It's not that France lacks entrepreneurs. It's not that there's rules and laws. We literally have some of the best engineers in the world. Ask SF companies how happy they are to receive french employees. The level of someone coming out of an engineering school in France is much higher than most of the US.

It's that we have a mix of large companies capturing everything (hello Capgemini) and leaders that have no interest in technology (and helping said large comapnies capture everything).

The good news is, you can just wait for those decision makers to die off and we'll be good. By the time you come out of a DUT/Licence or engineering school if you're heading this way, many will be gone. And more will be gone with time.

[belzebalex]

Completely agree with all you said.

Although, I am friend with lots of people who are starting careers in politics, and they're all coming from Business School or Sciences Po. None of them knows about the fundamentals of nature and technology and I have no hope that they will be better than the current leaders we have :/

[Juliate]

Well, if they are going straight into politics, they likely don't know fundamentals in business either (you don't learn those in schools).

[user5994461]

France does have a strong defense and aerospace industry indeed. That's maybe the only thing that's still alive and doing well, propped up by military budget and large companies. Military related work is one of the rare domains that can't be externalized.