[bazzert]

>> We're approaching the total death toll of World War II[3].

assuming you mean the US death toll also bear in mind the median age of WW II casualties was something like 26; while the median age for covid victims is 75+. Not to diminish the latter but they are very different.

[aflag]

Not sure if I follow your point? Are you saying this is less of a tragety because these people lived 50 years longer?

[treis]

Is it not? To me, an 18 year old getting mown down on a beach is a much larger tragedy than an 85 year old dying.

[snakeboy]

Let's not even get started on abortion...

Edit: I meant this as a joke, albeit in poor taste, I see it was not received well.

That being said, I do think that relativizing deaths in terms of "opportunity cost" does lead to some somewhat unpalatable moral conundra.

[ls612]

The way my friend in an epidemiology program put it to me (two years ago) was "Everyone dies. The question then is when?"

Hard to argue with it. But it does lead to some places mainstream american morality would consider unpleasant.

[aflag]

What's the point of the question? What would you argue? Yeah, obviously everyone dies, but when is the important part. It's generally agreed that shortening someone's time to live is one of the biggest offenses possible (if not the biggest). How does that question change that notion?

[ls612]

It directly implies that if we prefer dying later to dying sooner (in almost all cases) that older peoples lives would have statistically less value. Which is anathema to many Americans. The only way around it is to say you are indifferent to when death is for people, which is also anathema to a lot of people. It’s a paradox of our ethical system.

[liability]

Yes, it is less of a tragedy when an old person dies. Old people have less of their life to lose and have less remaining potential to contribute to society. The death of children is always more tragic than the death of elderly people.

This isn't a perspective exclusive to young people either. Last year my grandfather died and my cousin had a miscarriage. My grandmother was far more distraught over the latter because she understood that her husband, who she'd loved for nearly 60 years, had already lived a full happy life. She said as much explicitly.

[aflag]

It may be a cultural thing too. It is a lot faster to produce young unqualified people than a really senior person. We are losing minds like John Conway.

Anyway, I'd say my grandfather and cousin deaths (non-covid related) had about the same impact on me. Dying is the tragedy of being alive, I suppose.

[bazzert]

God bless your grandmother, I wept reading this post.

[austhrow743]

I don't know if they were saying it, but they would have been correct to do so if they were.

[cowpig]

Does your figure include people who couldn't get medical attention because the health system is completely overwhelmed?

Is it possible there are other issues you're not aware of, and that the people who spend their lives studying and preparing for these situations are?

[just-juan-post]

> Does your figure include people who couldn't get medical attention because the health system is completely overwhelmed?

Do you have any articles about people being turned away from hospitals due to lack of capacity?

[stinkytaco]

Explicitly being turned away? I have not seen those. The New York Times did an analysis of the overall death rate, however, and setting aside COVID deaths, it is up. It's not an unreasonable assumption to assume at least some of those are lack of medical care for whatever reason.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronav...

[mattmanser]

It's because people are afraid to go to hospital or call paramedics, they actually did a mini-campaign over here in the UK telling people it's still ok to call 999 (our 911) because they were so concerned about the deaths happening at home that could have been avoided.

[bazzert]

the health system was never "overwhelmed" except for brief periods and in specific locales. My spouse is in healthcare, they have still not recovered their normal census. If anything there will be a huge spike in cancer deaths due to late diagnosis etc as people have stayed away.

[treeman79]

So your saying that people are dying from cancer due to covid?

So it’s fair to attribute those deaths to covid then.

     -sarcasm

[bazzert]

I am saying people will die from cancer, because covid kept them out of the hospitals and clinics. Its better now, but back in march thru june many hospitals were laying off staff due to the cancellation of almost all routine procedures etc. https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/04/10/metro/tracking-lay-of...

[treeman79]

I was pondering if certain people will start marking cause of deaths as coronavirus.

Apparently coronavirus pays well for hospitals, also some people want the death due to cornoviruis to be as high as possible.

[dijit]

> while the median age for covid victims is 75+.

You mean 48.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6924e2-H.pdf

[karagenit]

I think the link you cited states that 48 is the median age of infections, whereas the person you're replying to is talking about deaths. I don't have national data, but in my state (Indiana) 51.4% of deaths are 80+ years old according to coronavirus.in.gov

[motbob]

No, that's the median cases age.

[bazzert]

what ?

" After exclusions, data for 1,320,488 (94%) cases were analyzed.Median age was 48 years"