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>then we're far beyond UBI already. In most of Europe, you'll receive an apartment, food, clothes, utilities, Where can you live that life without being an outcast? People in need get Basic Income, but it is not Universal. You have to trick the system if you want to get it indefinitely. >As far as I understand, the point of UBI is to go beyond that because these basics are seen as limiting. Of course they are limiting. That's why UBI works. As you have analysed correctly, you would have to enslave other people if you want more. Thus, people don't stop working, because there is always something that isn't covered by UBI. >Primarily, they stop working. We already have too many who are quite alright with the welfare they receive and prefer not to work. I really don't want to expand the number, because it just increases the work load for the rest. Don't forget that you need people to decide who is eligible for welfare and who isn't. In an UBI society, those people could do something else and reduce the work load for everybody else. Basic resources are cheap and get cheaper with more automation. At one point, you will be able feed the entire world from the work of a few persons. |
Germany, for example. Yeah, sure, on paper you have to be "looking for work", but it's really on paper only.
> In an UBI society, those people could do something else and reduce the work load for everybody else.
They won't though. I live in a mixed income apartment complex, including lots of people on perpetual welfare with no desire to change their situation.
I keep reading about UBI from well-meaning people who explain how it will totally work and I believe that they actually believe that. I also believe that they have no experience with the people that live off of government transfers not because of necessity but because of laziness. It's enough for a nice apartment (50+ square meters for one person), a flat screen TV, an X-Box, a smart phone, internet, food, cigarettes and the occasional alcoholic beverage, healthcare etc included obviously. And that's enough for quite a significant amount of people. They won't "make the world better" if you give them more money, they'll just buy a bigger TV and throw more parties.
> At one point, you will be able feed the entire world from the work of a few persons.
Possibly. Let's talk about UBI when we're there. We're not, we're not close, and we won't be for decades, unless you're talking about 4 square meters per person and 2500 calories of nutrious slime with no extras. And nobody is talking about that.
Drop UBI and replace it with a job guarantee and you'll have my attention. That gets you essentially the same: everybody has enough, but it doesn't come with the moral hazards. On the other hand, it also doesn't reward the lazy.