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by rutherblood 2130 days ago
> Unneeded efforts is where all the technology began.

let's say i grant this, but will you employ the said tech unless it is useful for you to do so?

the question here is about the purpose of going all synthetic.

1. sure, if say man can devise a way to manufacture a multitude of food "synthetically", that us just one purpose served i.e. food. you can keep replacing these various purposes that plants provide to human life. Let's say at one point all non-human species become extinct by human means or otherwise. after this we discover a purpose through their lack (even without this said discovery, it can be likely that we might not even know what we have lost, that could be or even then might have been useful to us, humans). now isn't that a tragedy? basically even if the "synthetic" means of some purposes to which other species benefit us were to be made economical somehow, that does not justify wiping them out even looking only through the lens of HUMAN benefit.

2. what is "synthetic" and how can synthetic means of achieving these purposes be made economical? first to have such an economy we would have to replicate the chemical efficiencies of photosynthesis etc. basically, copying life. second, we would need the self-replicating capacity too since this goes a long way towards economy, right? again, copying life. we might as well discover something the scale of a cell with self-replicating molecular architecture might be the way to go about it. we could as well end up making something which looks a lot like life actually and take a hell of time to achieve it, even provided we end up copying a whole lot of it (because it would be massively difficult, even this being a huge understatement, without a reference point i.e. existing life). now if all life on earth except humans if wiped out hypothetically through some means, this effort would be justified even if prone to instant failure because of our imminent deaths. but otherwise i don't see a point.

I'm not discouraging gaining knowledge about life and how it works, only that the argument of wiping it out to be replaced by everything synthetic, even someday doesn't make sense. do understand there is no such thing humans someday having all the knowledge. that day will never arrive.

2 comments

Evolution has local optima. Octopus and dolphins kind of have the intelligence to create civilizations but they are stuck in water. Dolphins never have the time to re-evolve feet because predators will hunt them down. There are C3 and C4 plants [1] but without technology, it is very unlikely that C3 plants become C4 plants.

Enter technology, and food production can be optimized. Combine those processes with others, and you can create plants that don't exist yet but are much better at creating food.

Technology doesn't mean that plants are outright destroyed. But it is very likely that new processes will be more efficient. To hedge against the threat of not knowing, seed banks will be kept. A risky move compared to keeping nature alive, but I doubt that anybody in power will maintain a rain forest over using the area for more efficient means of energy and resource creation.

Maintaining nature only makes sense if we are interested in knowledge as the primary driver. But the primary driver is power. Like Alexandria and Baghdad, there is no way that knowledge will be maintained when it stands in the way of power.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C4_carbon_fixation

> Technology doesn't mean that plants are outright destroyed.

> A risky move compared to keeping nature alive, but I doubt that anybody in power will maintain a rain forest over using the area for more efficient means of energy and resource creation.

> Maintaining nature only makes sense if we are interested in knowledge as the primary driver. But the primary driver is power.

I understand the sense in which you are saying all this, and I agree, this might be how things go about provided humanity even survives this century provided we reach this hypothetical synthetic economic optimal. lots of ifs. and risky as hell, very very risky. but yeah probably how things would go by, the best one can be is sad.

tbh if you ask me I really doubt human enduced climate change can ever be mitigated through collective human effort. we'd rather chose annihilation over it.

I think you might be underestimating the potential of biological engineering.
I think you might be overestimating. What is state of art biological engineering based upon? Current life processes, at best such technologies are "hacks" built on top of life on earth -- standing on the shoulder of giants. As far as I have heard we haven't yet managed to build or even know the entirety of the biological stack.
Yes. We can point to processes and relationships at various organizational scales and levels of abstraction (e.g., physical principles, chemical gradients, genes, hormones, morphological growth, phenotypes, ecosystems) but knowledge remains fragmented and we do not understand how everything comes together. Synthetic biology is a misnomer, imo; biological engineering is a much better term. Human-engineered machines and living systems are currently worlds apart in terms of causal complexity.

This isn't to say we shouldn't pursue it, just that we ought to realize how primitive our tools still are. We're fiddling with things we don't understand. We might as well try to do it consciously now, since centuries of unconscious intervention have put us in a bit of a bad place, existentially speaking.