[muska3]

Is it bad that I hope they do kill Epic's account?

Epic launches a preconceived plan with media attacks and the most ridiculous 1984 reference that actually doesn't make sense in the current context against Apple. If I'm Apple, even if this is a straight up attack on me, I just follow the rules in my TOS and block them like I do others who don't follow the TOS. If you don't like the TOS, fine you don't have to be on my platform and have access to my users. It's as simple as that. The fact that so many are rebelling against this, is actually good for consumers in the long run, they may flock to other platforms albeit there's now only two viable platforms, Apple and Android. Windows got bit by the dust, but I do wish they were still around to create a healthy three ecosystem battle.

Epic's a billion dollar company with huge resources fighting another billion dollar company. It's kind of hilarious watching this pan out, with Epic pretending to be some small indie corporation fighting a huge conglomerate.

[bagels]

How doesn't it make sense? Seems pretty on-point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_(advertisement)

In his 1983 Apple keynote address, Steve Jobs read the following story before showcasing a preview of the commercial:[21]

"[...] It is now 1984. It appears IBM wants it all. Apple is perceived to be the only hope to offer IBM a run for its money. Dealers initially welcoming IBM with open arms now fear an IBM dominated and controlled future. They are increasingly turning back to Apple as the only force that can ensure their future freedom. IBM wants it all and is aiming its guns on its last obstacle to industry control: Apple. Will Big Blue dominate the entire computer industry? The entire information age? Was George Orwell right about 1984?"

[dstaley]

> I just follow the rules in my TOS and block them like I do others who don't follow the TOS

I'm fairly sure Apple doesn't terminate the developer account simply for failing an app review. I think this is a specific executive decision based on the fact that Epic is unlikely to rectify the issue, which could be seen as retaliation.

[ascagnel_]

For failing app review? Apple would certainly be in the wrong for deleting Epic's accounts.

This was explicitly not a case of a failed app review. Epic rolled out their direct-purchase option with a server-side update (specifically to side-step Apple's rules), which falls afoul of Apple's developer agreement in two ways -- it would be classified as misrepresentation of the app as well as an attempt to mislead Apple during its app review. Apple reserves the right to block updates (which they haven't done _yet_, as Epic hasn't submitted any updates), delist the app (which they have done), remove the developer's account to block updates, and to blacklist the app entirely (eg: the app will stop working even if users already have it downloaded).

[ArchOversight]

That's what's in the Developer Program License Agreement though:

Section 11.2 Termination, subsection (f):

> (f) if You engage, or encourage others to engage, in any misleading, fraudulent, improper, unlawful or dishonest act relating to this Agreement, including, but not limited to, misrepresenting the nature of Your submitted Application (e.g., hiding or trying to hide functionality from Apple’s review, falsifying consumer reviews for Your Application, engaging in payment fraud, etc.).

In this case Epic hid functionality from Apple's review, with the intent to bypass further rules in the Developer Program License Agreement.

Apple is allowed to terminate the agreement at that time.

[dstaley]

Sorry, to clarify, I wasn't trying to imply that what Epic did wasn't against the TOS. My point was that Apple has the authority not to terminate Epic, but has chosen to do so, even when they've allowed other apps that have done things against the TOS to retain their developer account.

[ArchOversight]

There's a way to cure a breach in the license agreement, and other developers that have run afoul of the rules and were notified made fixes that brought them back into compliance with the agreement.

Epic has made it particularly clear that they do not intend to cure the breach, and Apple has made it clear that in that case they are not welcome to have an Apple Developer Program account and the permissions that grants a user.

[dstaley]

I think we're on the same page here. Are you saying that the application of Apple's TOS can't be considered retaliation since it's something Epic agreed to be held to?

[wwadvisory]

>the most ridiculous 1984 reference

To be fair, it's a reference to Apple's own ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I

[klmadfejno]

That ad is incredibly dumb and incredibly awesome.

[LeifCarrotson]

Epic is a $17-billion-dollar company fighting Apple, a $1,300 billion dollar company. They're two orders of magnitude larger. If Apple thought that this conflict really risked losing their app store cut they could just buy Epic without worrying much and take 100% of the transactions...

[sircastor]

The 1984 spoof feels like it misses the mark. I think it caused more people to go watch the original ad than anything else.

[pjmlp]

I also want to see Epic crash and burn, this was a PR plan from the very beginning.

[saurik]

If this were just Epic trying to get press as a "stunt", like a giant bluff or expecting to lose, I might agree with you... but Epic has filed the lawsuit and is certainly going to follow through on this: only an idiot does that--at such a heavy cost to their customer base, which otherwise might cause blowback--without having all their ducks in a row on basic PR. Seriously: if you want to be able to take Apple on in a lawsuit like this and win, you need to demonstrate that Apple is serious about the behavior you think is illegal and then sue them for that, not some vague idea that Apple probably wouldn't let you do something: between the two giant companies, both of which are kind of reprehensible, let's focus on this one issue and root for the correct side here.

[pjmlp]

If Epic was being honest they would have sued Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft.

This way this is just PR stunt.