[Arathorn]

Folks, it's been like 3 weeks since we renamed Riot as Element, and (picking DDG) it's already the 18th hit from the top. Riot was 4th at the point we renamed it (second only to RG). Meanwhile it's already the top hit on the Play Store. So give it a few more weeks :) In terms of the name itself, I personally think "Let's talk on Element" is at least as catchy as "Let's talk on Riot", although it's touching to see folks missing the name Riot.

[lancesells]

You've got my vote. This is the first time I've heard of either product and to me Element sounds closer to something I would check out than Riot.

I really like the philosophy behind the project and I will check it out. I would, however, recommend maybe marketing it in a different way. Let's say Slack added every single one of these features on the Element home page. My guess is they wouldn't market any of these same features on the home page because they really aren't what you use the app for (which I take it is messaging). While I agree that Element seems much better than Slack in what makes it unique there's nothing telling me that's it's easier to use than Slack. There's really even nothing telling me it's even easy to use, or fun to use, or will help me communicate better with my team.

[smichel17]

Generally I like the new name a lot. The turning point that took me from lukewarm to positive was when the phrase, "in my element" popped into my head, which I think is a pretty fitting theme for a messenger app using a decentralized protocol like matrix (almost (but not quite) enough for me to wish matrix were branded something like "bond" -- that which connects elements).

However, there's one major way it's lacking: brevity. "Element" will never be a verb like Slack, WhatsApp, Snap, Signal, etc. Telegram has the same problem -- "Send me a Telegram" is the closest you can naturally get; "Telegram me" is too much of a mouthful. Element is even worse in this respect, since I can't think of a phrase like "Send me an Element".

Now to turn this criticism upside down: I think you can spin this downside onto an amazing upside, by making the protocol the verb. People don't say "gmail me" or "aol me". They don't say "handcent me" or "textra me" (or at least, not until iMessage came along). If your goal is to encourage an open ecosystem rather than monopolize the market, not having your flagship client take up too much of the verbiage is a good thing. So it's not "Element me, it's "Matrix me".

..which, is still subpar. Two syllables with ending in x is a mouthful. I'm kind of loathe to suggest a rebrand of the protocol, too, but.. It might be worth considering.

Total aside: The single biggest improvement you could make to Element, for me, would be to stop giving mentions special treatment in the composer. I want to be able to put my cursor in the middle of someone's name, press backspace, and delete one letter, not their entire name. Using a pill as a distinct visual style to indicate that the person I'm mentioning will see it as a mention is a good thing. Making it function differently than the plain letters would is an exercise in frustration. I've nothing against WYSIWYG composers, although I prefer plain text (since I'm used to it), but if you're going to allow text-based formatting, then the composer window needs to act as (but not necessarily look like) 100% text. Polari is the absolute gold standard here, and Discord is alright (at least, if you keep their godawful "preview as you type" beta feature, which messes up mentions the same way Riot does, turned off). I spend most of my time in the composer; it's the biggest bang-free-buck area for QoL improvements.

[corobo]

Surely it’s just “message me”

Don’t try to make “matrix me” a thing, that’s the exact sort of thing that makes nerd decentralisation projects on the web fail outside of needing your own personal sysadmin to replace Twitter. It sounds dumb and matrix is known as a pain in the arse to use by people that have come across it, 1999 film otherwise

We have a word, it’s message.

[egypturnash]

My circles use Telegram a lot and I have no problem saying “Telegram me”.

[danShumway]

I went through the exact same thing on a smaller scale when I decided to rename an independent project I was working on. The existing community suddenly became really attached to the old name, and I had a number of people tell me that the new name was a mistake.

Even people who agreed that the old name was a problem were still telling me that they just didn't like the shift in tone, that they felt doubtful about everything. It was a very surreal experience, because I knew the old name was a problem and I knew the newer name better invoked the feeling I wanted, but all of a sudden I was seeing so much pushback from so many people that I wasn't confident any more.

The solution was to take the project to a big conference with a bunch of brand new users and ask them about it while I demoed. Across the board, pretty much everyone liked the new name better, it immediately got across what I wanted. It was a complete 180 in reactions. So after that, I stuck to my guns and in a month or two everyone in the existing community was used to it and a lot of them had come around to saying they now preferred the new name.

My take is people are familiar with 'Riot', it has a sense of nostalgia for them, and even if they don't like the name Riot, that's just what pops into their head when they think about the project. If it's something you feel confident about, then you should ignore the people complaining. Or maybe not ignore, but at least filter their complaints a bit and don't treat them like gospel.

When thinking about branding changes, there's danger in listening too closely to the existing community, because it's going to be hard for them not to have a familiarity bias towards the things they're used to.

[TedDoesntTalk]

Because “Let’s talk on zoom” is any better? :)

[toofy]

zoom has already become a verb.

honestly, i was aok with riot as a name being a barrier to entry, i’m fully convinced at this point that barriers to entry somewhat mitigate against eternal september and the toxicity which follows with it. take irc, while it certainly has toxicity issues, the esoteric nature kept the worst away.

so even if element, as a name, adds to keeping it low enough profile to keep it from becoming a verb–i know many will disagree (particularly the devs (sorry Arathorn))–im fine with that.

i hope we can find that magic balance where it’s a fundamental project which will bring in funding and people power, but not so fundamental that everyone’s toxic aunt and uncle uses it as a verb.

[fishmaster]

I don't quite understand this need to make everything into a verb that americans seem to have. "Let's zoom", really? In germany it's just "let's write in WhatsApp/Telegram/Facebook/Signal/etc.".

[jazzyjackson]

it has fewer syllables going for it

[kgwxd]

I'm sure if it becomes popular, people would just call it "Ellie" but spell it "Ele".