Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by heyoo 2145 days ago
Are $500k+ yearly salaries in SV really that usual?
5 comments

> Are $500k+ yearly salaries in SV really that usual?

Salaries? Not at all. Total compensation? Well, it depends.

Software engineers with < 10yrs of experience routinely make this much at FAANG. The total compensation number usually includes the following:

* Salary

* Bonus (anywhere between 15-25% of salary)

* Initial grant that vests over 3-4yrs

* Stock "refreshers" that you get annually

* General equity appreciation due to a bull market

For senior engineers, the equity portion of their compensation far outweighs their salary.

I wouldn't count the equity appreciation as compensation. you already own the capital, its your own capital gain, not income from employer at that point.
I'd argue that if we're talking about unvested equity, counting appreciation as a comp increase rather than capital gain is reasonable.
Yes and no. When your RSUs are granted at 100k and then vest a few years later at 300k, from yours and the IRS' perspective you made whatever + 300k.
Yes, but you should value them at 100k, because it is the functional equivalent of getting a 100k cash bonus, that you (instead of diversifying) foolishly spent on buying a single company's stock.

You don't actually need to work at Facebook to sink 100k into buying Facebook stock (That you then forbid yourself from selling for 4 years).

> that you (instead of diversifying) foolishly spent on buying a single company's stock

So, it is actually a bit more complicated, and better than that, and long term stock grants act as a psuedo stock hedge.

This is a simplification, but imagine that there is stock worth X, that hs a 50% chance of the stock doubling in value, and a 50% chance of it crashing to 0$. You might think that this would be equivalent in expected value to X, but that is not true.

It is not true, because if the stock goes way down, you don't have to "accept" those losses. Instead, you can jump to another company, mid way through, and get back your previously high salary.

In that way you can capture the upside potential, while also being protected against the downside losses, in that if the stock goes down, you just jump ship, and get a high salary somewhere else.

hedging is not arbitrage. There is no free lunch.
It’s basically guaranteed at this point. And you don’t own the capital, you don’t start getting the massively appreciated grants until you are a few years in
You actually do not own the capital until it vests, and the amount that vests (which could have greatly appreciated) is all taxed as income.
That's just accounting treatment. Doesn't change the financial fact that it can be replicated with a cash bonus the same size as the original grant.
No, it can't because you lose unvested shares if you leave before they vest. Have you ever been granted RSUs?
I guess that when the market will finally correct because of all the mess that we are having in 2020 their salary may get quite a downturn if they are including the increasing values of the stock market as part of their compensation..
>* General equity appreciation due to a bull market

This one can theoretically cut both directions

Theoretically. In practice, for the past century, there has been only one direction, provided you are patient.
If you factor in stock grants and the crazy run-up in their valuations over the last decade(s), yes. This may or may not continue.
Yes as long as you're talking about total compensation; I've 7 years of experience in software engineering and my offers are in the 500-600k range of total compensation. Note this is equity value at grant; there is no appreciation (or depreciation) yet.

I recently took one of those offers from a FAANG, swapping a bunch of illiquid startup RSUs for liquid equity compensation.

For senior engineers, yes. I've found that https://www.levels.fyi/ is pretty accurate.
Levels.fyi seems to indicate senior total comp as more like 300k in Bay Area for FAANG.
Google is ~$350K, Facebook is ~$375K, Amazon is ~$315K (and not known to pay well outside of equity appreciation), Apple is ~$320K for ICT4 which doesn't map well to Senior at the others, probably a bit low. Netflix is severely north of $300K but hard to say because there's just one title -- average at $450K.
Right: the grandparent was about north of $500k though which apparently seniors don't make, only higher levels. I'm surprised I was downvoted there?
I guess "senior engineers" can be up to interpretation. Colloquially, I take it as someone with mid-career experience. For most of the FAANGs, "senior" can be reached in as little as 3 years out of college, with a median somewhere around 4-5. For a 30+ year career, one can safely assume your compensation will continue going up from your "senior" title 5 years in.

To summarize: yeah, I suppose $500K 4-5 years out of school isn't achievable, but within 10 it is.

That would be a staff level position, possible but not common. https://levels.fyi has details, but in the 200s for experienced, 300s for senior.