[ThA0x2]

>Poor people are the least likely to have the time and means to get any of these free IDs.

I'd say it's the opposite. Employed middle class working 9-to-5 with 2 kids have less time and means. There's a Hitchen's quote somewhere here...

Voter ID laws have not been show to reduce turn out.

>To add to that, states like Alabama strategically place offices to make it even more difficult for e.g. people who do not have access to a car to get said ID.

That's not a problem with voter ID laws though. This is a red herring.

>The Social Security Card is a free document. They mail it to you without you having to present yourself anywhere.

This is patently false. I just personally went through this. You absolutely have to show up to a SSA office and bring documentation.

[runako]

> Employed middle class working 9-to-5 with 2 kids have less time and means.

"Employed middle class" typically reads as "mobile" and "9-5" frequently reads as "white-collar". Those folks feel time constrained, but they are also very likely to have e.g. PTO/flexible work schedules and access to transportation.

It's worse for (say) unemployed people with no transportation. This is to say nothing of the disabled, bedridden, etc. There are significant numbers of people for whom this is an unnecessary burden.

And again -- this burden is significantly higher than the requirement placed on residents who wish to carry shotguns into restaurants.

> Voter ID laws have not been show to reduce turn out.

Voter ID laws have not been shown to reduce voter fraud. At best, they add cost and bureaucracy without any proven benefit.

> That's not a problem with voter ID laws though. This is a red herring.

A common argument against voter ID laws is that they are of a lineage with historic disenfranchisement mechanisms in the US. Strategically making it difficult to get a newly-required voter ID is a direct descendant of the voter suppression schemes our parents fought against. It's absolutely relevant to bring in recent history.

> This is patently false. I just personally went through this. You absolutely have to show up to a SSA office and bring documentation.

Did you lose your card, or need a replacement in a hurry? For decades, newborns have been able to be issued cards without anyone showing up at an SSA office. (Yes, I have personally done this for an infant. I can confirm that you fill out a form and they mail you a card, just like you'd expect.) SSA also has a site where residents of many states can request a replacement card online if they have state ID: https://www.ssa.gov/myaccount/replacement-card.html.

[Edit: The SSA forms indicate that even replacements for adult citizens can be done via mail. It would be fair for you to mention that you had an atypical situation that required you to go in to get a card, but that this is not required.]

If voter ID proponents start advocating for Social Security cards or other 100% free-by-mail IDs as voter documents, a lot of the opposition would go away. But then, so would the perceived partisan benefit, so that's not in the cards.

[ThA0x2]

>"Employed middle class" typically reads as "mobile" and "9-5" frequently reads as "white-collar". Those folks feel time constrained, but they are also very likely to have e.g. PTO/flexible work schedules and access to transportation.

Not really, no: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class

"In 2005, sociologists William Thompson and Joseph Hickey estimate an income range of roughly $35,000 to $75,000 for the lower middle class and $100,000 or more for the upper middle class."

That encompasses the likes of 9-to-5ers, licensed electricians, oil field workers, etc.

>It's worse for (say) unemployed people with no transportation. This is to say nothing of the disabled, bedridden, etc. There are significant numbers of people for whom this is an unnecessary burden.

It's probably even easier. With unemployment benefits, additional stimulus, and lots of time on their hands, it's a perfect time to get their voter ID. Disabled and bedridden were equally disadvantaged under prior systems; this is a red herring.

>And again -- this burden is significantly higher than the requirement placed on residents who wish to carry shotguns into restaurants.

Categorically wrong. You need a photo ID to purchase a firearm, and some states require a license to carry long guns. Other states outright ban open carry of long guns.

>Voter ID laws have not been shown to reduce voter fraud. At best, they add cost and bureaucracy without any proven benefit.

Voter ID laws have been shown to reduce and/or prevent certain types of voter fraud, though indeed voter fraud is rare. At best, they prevent voter fraud, speed up the actual voting process at poll sites, reduce certain types of errors, etc.

>A common argument against voter ID laws is that they are of a lineage with historic disenfranchisement mechanisms in the US.

It's a common argument, but it's more of a conspiracy theory without any hard numbers to back it up.

>Strategically making it difficult to get a newly-required voter ID is a direct descendant of the voter suppression schemes our parents fought against. It's absolutely relevant to bring in recent history.

It's not difficult, nor do voter ID laws suppress voter turn out. Unproven conspiracy theories have nothing to do with recent history.

>Did you lose your card, or need a replacement in a hurry?

I needed to change my name, which most married females do. Nonetheless, if you lose your voter ID card and you don't have to make a change, you can similarly get a replacement without showing up to an office. This makes your entire point moot.

>For decades, newborns have been able to be issued cards without anyone showing up at an SSA office. (Yes, I have personally done this for an infant. I can confirm that you fill out a form and they mail you a card, just like you'd expect.) SSA also has a site where residents of many states can request a replacement card online if they have state ID: https://www.ssa.gov/myaccount/replacement-card.html.

That website specifically outlines that you need a "driver's license or a state-issued identification card from one of the many participating states.", so, again, that absolutely negates your point.

>[Edit: The SSA forms indicate that even replacements for adult citizens can be done via mail. It would be fair for you to mention that you had an atypical situation that required you to go in to get a card, but that this is not required.]

Changing your name is not an atypical situation. About 80% of married females end up changing their name. Also, the SSA form literally outlines that you need a state issued ID... like a driver's license that you can use for voting!

>If voter ID proponents start advocating for Social Security cards or other 100% free-by-mail IDs as voter documents, a lot of the opposition would go away.

As I posted above, voter ID proponents are almost universally for 100% free IDs as voter documents, Texas being a fine example: https://www.votetexas.gov/mobile/id-faqs.htm

The opposition is still there though.

>But then, so would the perceived partisan benefit, so that's not in the cards.

There is no effect on voter turn out, nor is there a partisan benefit. One of the supposedly most "at risk" groups to be suppressed by voter ID laws are the elderly. They overwhelmingly vote Republican.

[runako]

You're arguing against your own points and misrepresenting American history enough here that I think I'll check out. Appreciate the discussion.