[sorbits]

> I tell about UPI to my friends in Western countries, When they tell how easy and seamless Apple Pay has made their payments, they're often surprised that such system exists here […]

Western countries in your statement is probably mainly USA, as most of Europe has been using contactless payment via NFC for many years.

Apple Pay is effectively just using the phone’s NFC chip instead of that embedded in the debit/credit card, although it does bring one advantage: Because the iPhone has its own authentication system, you’re never asked for PIN code when paying with your phone, whereas paying with a debit/credit card will ask for PIN if the amount is above a certain threshold, or if it hasn’t asked for a long time.

I have been using payment apps in Asia, not India, but Apple Pay is definitely more seamless (or NFC enabled cards), as these only require you to hold them near the terminal, whereas a payment app require first being launched, and then either scanning a QR code and confirming, or bringing up your QR code to have the cashier scan it.

Don’t get me wrong: I am very much a fan of the concept of UPI, I am commenting just to clarify that universal payment interface with third party apps is different than NFC enabled payments, where I think it is really the latter, that your friends in Western countries are describing as seamless.

[harpratap]

Google/Apple pay are still not as seamless as something like Osaifu Keitai from Japan. Google/Apple are beholden to Visa & Mastercard and the banks issuing the correct kind of cards. Japan's Osaifu Keitai tech stack + business model completely gets rid of these old institutions.

One example is Visa Japan has some ongoing fallout with Apple and JR East, so you cannot use your Visa credit card to top up your Suica transit card with Apple pay, but it works fine on Android with Google pay. Lot of merchants get confused between NFC/Apple Pay/Google Pay/Visa Pay and so many spin offs of something that's essentially just NFC A-B mode of payment.

With Osaifu Keitai you just choose one provider - Passmo, Suica etc and just top up money in any form you want - cash, credit card, debit card, points etc. And it just works. No internet, no middlemen and sub millisecond latency which is very crucial transit payments.

[ZeikJT]

Last time I was visiting Japan my friends with Apple phones were able to add their physical cards to their phones and then top up their suica/pasmo cards digitally but I had Android and it was impossible.

[rnotaro]

It's available on Android since March. ^_^

https://www.pasmo.co.jp/mp/and/

[lmz]

That's a stored value card. Which does work in a limited context (Japan). You can't use it internationally, unlike contactless EMV.

[harpratap]

There's nothing technically stopping it from being used in other countries though, Hong Kong has implemented the same system with same level of success as Japan.

> You can't use it internationally, unlike contactless EMV.

Technically it's incorrect. Visa/Mastercard works internationally, I have a RuPay card from India and it didn't work internationally until recently. So it depends on the reciprocal agreement between networks - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_reciprocal_agreements

[lmz]

Yes HK has its own stored value card, but you can't use Octopus in Japan, can you?

Also I'm sure you'd agree it's easier to trust something issued internationally if there was some element of online verification to it (admittedly probably not much of an issue for transit applications).

[harpratap]

This is where Apple and Google step in, you can load Octopus pay on your phone and start using it like a local. Apple even notifies you about Suica as soon as you land in Japan.

[Abishek_Muthian]

During 2010 I was working for a payments company in India and we already had NFC based payment system based on Nokia 6131(2007) and J2ME app which was used for demonstration to Government; Obviously we were too early and it got nowhere(except in Singapore I think).

So, I completely understand when you mean NFC payments vs UPI. I made my statement not as a direct technical comparison, but to inform that there is a way for seamless payments in India now which wasn't available earlier. Btw, Apple has put its plans to integrate UPI with Apple Pay on hold due to disagreements with data storage, I wonder what its doing in China.

Interestingly, it's not my friends in US who raved about Apple Pay but those in England(Not sure what's that about).