[alloai]

There are two sides of the story, there is a Chinese version saying that there are a lots of frauds here.

Car making is a capital burning business, you just can not do it without the wealth like elon musk.

It's kind of a venture investment here, there were so many car investment in the past few years, when there were investment bubbles, but now, the bubble is gone.

[magicsmoke]

I've read in a paper somewhere that a big part of why Chinese auto manufacturers aren't as successful as Japanese or Korean ones is because they're too tied to the local government to fail. Each province in China has their own local auto company connected to the provincial government, resulting in a lot of duplicated effort and inefficiency. Japan and Korea had a lot of indigenous auto makers when they first started as well, but they allowed the weaker ones to get bought out and cannibalized to build up the stronger ones.

[xenospn]

Japan has a very long tradition of quality and striving for perfection. China, not so much. And cars these days really need to be more than “good enough” to compete worldwide.

[freddie_mercury]

Japan's worldwide reputation was "garbage, low-quality stuff" until the 1960s. That's not a "very long tradition".

"At first, Japan had a widely held reputation for shoddy exports, and their goods were shunned by international markets"

For a pop-culture example look at the Back To The Future movie where the 1955 version of Dr. Brown says "No wonder this circuit failed. It says 'Made in Japan'." The 1985 version of Marty says "What do you mean, Doc? All the best stuff is made in Japan."

[xenospn]

That's not the kind of "stuff" I'm referring to. Any visit to Japan will reveal rich history full of incredible craftsmanship and attention to detail - engineering, arts, and design.

A similar visit to China - not so much. They have so much ancient history - but their modern story is not as pleasant (for various reasons).

I love China and have traveled across it multiple times. I think it's a beautiful country full of wonderful people - but they just don't have any kind of desire to achieve perfection like the Japanese do. And Japan was able to exit their "goods shunned by international markets" phase very quickly (Tokyo hosted the Olympics and started running the Shinkansen in 1964, less than 20 years after the war).

When will china stop making "cheap stuff"? When will they create their own proprietary tech and license it out to us?

[mahesh_rm]

This is not correct. Nearly every iconic traditional Japanese craftsmanship originated in China, and was obsessionally perfected in Japan. The art of Bonsai, Camera Lenses, Sushi, Swordsmanship. You name it.

[magicsmoke]

Japan and South Korea were both known for cheap low quality goods in the 60s/70s. We've seen how that history plays out once they got enough experience to move up the value chain.