[Wolfenstein98k]

The scale and nature of what is captured is COMPLETELY different, and American laws about data protection are completely different.

America has clear rules in place before stored data can be accessed by the state, with few exceptions.

China has a blanket policy of supplying all data to the state at its request, and there is no independent judiciary or other means of appealing this process.

Instead of Whataboutism, consider looking into why every major nation in the world (bar a few heavily reliant allies) are turning on China as the extent and nature of their policies and intentions has become impossible to ignore. Xi is a large part of this strategic turn in what was already an Orwellian dictatorship - read about his geostrategic goals.

[close04]

> Instead of Whataboutism

Don't deflect. I'm not the one using whataboutism, you are: "US surveillance is ok because the scale is smaller than the Chinese one". And even that's debatable, US has global reach in collecting data.

As a European the "scale and nature of what is captured" by the US via big-tech companies (or the NSA) is "COMPLETELY different" from what happens in the EU. EU "laws about data protection are completely different". EU "has clear rules in place before stored data can be accessed by the state, with few exceptions". So I'll put it this way: for a European the US surveillance state looks more or less the same as how the Chinese surveillance state might look to the US.

So let me rephrase it: for me the US is what China is for you. You are doing to others what China is doing to you. But when you're doing it you find a strong sense of righteousness in it and anyone who doesn't agree with you is the enemy.

Many also hold this narrow view that between 2 things you must agree with one and disagree with the other. A common misconception that if you reject one option you must embrace the other. Please understand, I can disagree just fine with both what China and the US are doing. I'm giving you an outside perspective of the issue which might better help you understand how perception of something changes once you realize the baseline doesn't have to be you, it can actually be higher. You'll probably agree with me that when it comes to surveillance and privacy the EU is probably better positioned to make a moral judgement.

[Wolfenstein98k]

I didn't "deflect", the topic was Chinese surveillance and censorship.

PS I'm not American or in America.

[close04]

> PS I'm not American or in America.

The point was generic so I'd say it stands. And the particular point was that most views are relative to where you're looking from but everybody states them in very absolute terms. You set your baseline at what you're comfortable with and take that as absolute reference. I was just trying to show you that that's not the case.

Putting it more simply, if you support the absolute idea that TikTok is bad, and their US operations should be forced to sell and be under US control, then the idea that Facebook or Google are bad and their EU operations should be forced to sell and be under EU control is just as true. Very few people see it like this as such the logic of the discussion is fractured. Without reconciling that fracture first every discussion looks like this [0].

[0] https://pics.onsizzle.com/our-blessed-homeland-their-barbaro...