[Udo]

> Hear me out, my chrome-domed friend.

Thanks for making me laugh :-)

Yes, I do shave my head as well. Sadly, I still don't have the charisma, the fame or the good looks of Patrick Steward. Like I said, some people can pull it off, but not that many. And what if Patrick Steward had the choice? Chances are, he'd opt for a full head of hair and probably even more women would find him sexy because of it.

Also, I thought Sinéad O'Connor was quite attractive without the hair. That doesn't mean I would recommend it for 99% of the women either.

On a personal note, two women told me point blank they'd be attracted to me if I had hair and others have made remarks about how important nice hair is for a man. Sure, it would be great to have other qualities to compensate for this, but since I don't it apparently comes down to hair over baldness.

[thaumaturgy]

There is a (possibly apocryphal) story that, when ST:TNG was to begin filming, Stewart was being encouraged to use a wig "because baldness would have been cured by the 25th century"; his response was that baldness shouldn't be a social stigma in the 25th century.

I couldn't quickly verify the story, but, as someone whose gradual pattern baldness can be most gently described as "hilarious", I appreciate it even if it's not true.

I also think -- and I'm about to be a lot crude here -- that male baldness is a little like breast size for women. Sure, guys will notice average-to-larger sized breasts, but there's a lot more to how attractive they think a woman is: posture, attitude, a smile, for example. Is baldness a disadvantage? Sure. Does it, by itself, make you unattractive? Nah.

[Udo]

I'm not sure it compares to breast size. For instance, I really like women with smaller breasts, the larger ones just don't seem very aesthetic to me (especially with no clothes on).

Compared to that, baldness is a style that may look good on a few men; it may look neutral on a few more. But the overwhelming majority of men would be better off (dating-wise) with a full head of hair. All other things being equal, having hair is a plus.

Many people are surprised to hear this, but huge breasts can actually be a turn-off to many men. However I never heard a woman say: "I'd find him attractive if only he was bald, that full lustrous head of hair just doesn't do it for me".

[Mz]

Many people are surprised to hear this, but huge breasts can actually be a turn-off to many men. However I never heard a woman say: "I'd find him attractive if only he was bald, that full lustrous head of hair just doesn't do it for me".

Many people are surprised to hear it because it rarely gets said. I believe you are the first man I have heard state that he prefers smaller breasts. Just because you don't hear women say "If only he were bald..." doesn't mean there are no women thinking it.

I will also note that women tend to talk less about men and their physical attributes than men do about women and their physical attributes. Women are generally not in a good position to pursue sex for mere fun and typically need to consider the possibility that, oops, she might wind up pregnant and then it will matter a good deal more if he is decent, loyal, has a reasonable income and so on. I will also note that lots of women like older men and older men are often losing their hair. So I think that is indirect evidence that some women are perfectly happy to get with a man with less hair.

I'm sorry this is such a huge issue for you. But I don't think your argument really holds water.

[Udo]

> I will also note that women tend to talk less about men and their physical attributes than men do about women and their physical attributes

This has not been my experience.

> I'm sorry this is such a huge issue for you.

It's not, actually. Mainly I just enjoy the discussion.

Actually, you make an interesting point. I believe there is a social norm involved that tells men they have to like large breasts or else they're gay/weak/whatever. I do know a few men who are really and credibly into huge pendulous breasts, but I also know some who just try to conform to the "standard" outwardly and privately they prefer them smaller.

So your point is that women prefer hair because being bald is a social stigma, being an analogous process to the stigmatization of preferring small breasts? I'm not convinced, but it's an interesting thought.

[thaumaturgy]

I didn't really want to derail this into a conversation about boobs; the takeaway should have been that, while certain physical attributes are more or less appealing to most people, the particulars matter a lot less than the attractiveness of the person as a whole.

[Udo]

I think the boob analogy was interesting, so why not talk about it.

But to bring this back together: my main hypothesis really comes down to the point that "hair" trumps "no hair" if all other factors are eliminated. Sure some people may look awesome without hair, and most men can make up for this and other shortcomings in many ways.

I agree, the whole person counts. But I assert that even an attractive and successful bald man would be more desirable if he had hair. And for the not so attractive and successful, the difference of having hair can be the whole bowl of wax.

[Mz]

So your point is that women prefer hair because being bald is a social stigma, being an analogous process to the stigmatization of preferring small breasts?

I wouldn't put it that way. Some thoughts, since you kind of asked:

The main analogy I was making was that just as men who prefer smaller breasts don't necessarily go crowing about it, women who prefer baldness may also keep their mouths shut.

As for an actual reason to not prefer baldness, see my other remark in this thread about how "looks" are indicators of health: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2409000

As for preferring older men: I think women prefer older men because they make better mates for a variety of reasons. Yes, for some women the financial success of an older man has a lot of appeal. But I really think it's a lot more complicated than that.

My recollection is that male pattern baldness is associated with hormonal stuff. So for some women I can see that being a reason to be drawn to it -- if it looks like the "genetic"/hormonal variety and not some indicator he's just not healthy.

[arbitrarywords]

I will also note that women tend to talk less about men and their physical attributes than men do about women and their physical attributes

I often wonder if this is a generational thing. This seems to be true of the women I know my age (in their mid 30s, but this has been true when younger as well), but I am also friends with a couple of groups now in their mid 20s and they are very happy to talk about the physical attributes of the guys they know to a level of detail and intimacy that I would never feel comfortable talking about with my male friends.

[Mz]

That's entirely possible.

[georgieporgie]

> I never heard a woman say: "I'd find him attractive if only he was bald, that full lustrous head of hair just doesn't do it for me".

I have. I've read it, and I've heard it in conversation. I've also heard some women prefer short men, fat men, etc.

[FooBarWidget]

Good looks? I'd say Patrick Steward is average looking at best. Any charisma he has comes from his behavior, which is something I believe anybody can change given enough effort.

[ciupicri]

> any charisma he has comes from his behavior

And his movies.