[mod]

I agree.

In my lifetime I have never known the average person to be engaged, nor informed. I think they're mostly mis-informed for the past 10+ years.

People just believe whatever outlandish title comes across their facebook feed. I had about 12 people ask me if I heard the news--that wayfair was selling missing children on their website, disguised as fancy cabinets. It took me about 12 seconds to find out it was a theory with no evidence put forth by an anonymous reddit poster. 2/12 changed their minds when I showed them that.

[vorpalhex]

I made the terrible mistake of trying to convince someone out of this insane view only to remember the old quote, "You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into".

Maybe we should just devote the entirety of a school year to basic rationalism and logic...

[spaetzleesser]

"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into".

Very good quote. It took me decades to comprehend that a lot of people don’t even try to understand things but go with whatever sounds right and makes them feel good. Especially when it comes to political issues I don’t think I have ever heard somebody say “oh yes, this convinces me to change my stance.”. People stick to their beliefs as long as possible. I only have seen people change their minds over years.

[jccc]

It's difficult, tiring, and demoralizing to keep on and on trying to maintain sincere and reasoned argument with seemingly unreasonable and ignorant people.

But we really can't give in to that cynicism. These conversations almost always have an audience, and the point isn't just to convince this person in front of you and win, but to keep your side of the argument alive and in front of as many people as possible.

And to practice your own patience, sharpen your argument, and maintain bridges and relationships.

I'm sure most people can't do it, but if you can please don't throw up your hands and walk away, depriving perhaps many other people from hearing a point of view they might not otherwise ever hear.

[Edit: Of course I'm speaking generally here about climate denialism, etc., not specifically about the crazy conspiracy theory mentioned above.]

[lopmotr]

Do you also put that much effort into arguing against climate exaggerationism? Claims like the world is on fire, civilization will end or humans will go extinct because of it? People who won't have children because they believe the world will no longer be suitable for human habitation during their lives.

[vorpalhex]

If we're arguing for something rationally it is important to be honest in that argument. That means not pretending the risk doesn't exist, but also not over-inflating the risk.

One of the worst things the CDC did was take an anti-mask position initially when it was a bald faced lie unsupported by data. That destroyed their trust relationship and continues to haunt us now.

[throwanem]

If we start now, that will start to make a difference in a couple of decades. What do we do until then?

[Filligree]

Hang on as best we can. The best time to plant a tree is a century ago, but the second best time is right now.

[justicezyx]

Worse yet.

When confronted with truth and reasoning, people reject them without engaging...

[mistermann]

I've heard a similar theory about Epstein and child trafficking for years, but not one single person was ever able to provide evidence proving the allegation, so naturally I concluded the allegation is False.

Simple logic goes a long way in discovering the truth, no need to get into that complicated epistemology pseudoscience.

[lopmotr]

You think that's bad? I've met more than 12 people who believe humans were created by an invisible space alien who reads our minds and will punish us if we think the wrong thoughts. When I was at school, we were encouraged to engage in group chants begging the space alien not to punish us.

Religion is the elephant in the room. There are more people who believe God wants them to kill gays and Jews than believe in any internet conspiracy theory.