[rawgabbit]

Agreed. Best projects I worked on were led by the business stakeholder. No project managers. No scrum master. No QA folks. The tech leads translated business speak into tech requirements and educated the business on the art of the possible. Because the business drove it they learned very quickly and took ownership. The entire project was managed by word documents stored on a file share.

[2rsf]

as a test person I can see an organization without a dedicated QA organization or even dedicated people, this is even somewhat of a recent trend, but someone still needs to test and take care of the test infrastructure and this is not a small nor easy task for someone who is also in charge of developing the feature.

[pm90]

The problem with this approach is similar to the problem of having a dedicated org for ops: the qa/testing org is disjointed from any sense of delivering business value and its goals are somewhat arbitrary. This team usually does not have a good understanding of what devs workflow looks like and instead it mandates some things that look good on paper but end up being quite useless in practice. Eg “have functional tests for every application” becomes a mandate that devs pay lip service to. It becomes another annoying box that devs need to check rather than something that actually improves the reliability of their applications.

A better approach is to discuss the reliability goals with the dev team and let them employ/buy any testing tools they need and hold the team responsible for the result. Developers want to build reliable apps. They know how their applications work. They want what they build to not break.

[undergrowth54]

Or to have the infra team learn how to do UX design.

No I do not mean Photoshop/InDesign/Balsamiq/Dribble etc. I mean user experience design. Like https://fishshell.com/ or https://www.digitalocean.com/docs/databases/postgresql/quick...

[2rsf]

The only exception is that you would probably still need few test specialists, the same as devops specialist or frontend developers no one person can know all the tools and methods.