[vwat]

From first principles reasoning, this is a good idea. We don’t ban Chinese websites, books or products. Although we tax their products more now. Apps aren’t like physical commodities. They can be used to gather data, quite invasively, shape and form public opinion in a new and more visceral way, as well as take advantage of exploits. Admittedly websites can do that too, but the scale of adoption of Tiktok makes this a special case. Just by sheer numbers, many important people will be using tiktok, or their families, colleagues and friends. If you ever complained about Russian election meddling, then you are a hypocrite if you don’t support this. What if tiktok was Russia’s? I think some people are getting lost in the politics.

The facts: we gain almost nothing by having tiktok around. We lose nothing by banning it, and gain a little bit of buffer against possible threats like election meddling, data mining for nefarious purposes and other things. Completely leaving politics aside, I basically support this.

[mFixman]

> [...] we gain almost nothing by having tiktok around.

We gain an outlet or creativity that's particularly fun for teens. You might as well say that we gain nothing by banning skateboards, video games, or rock music.

I would agree more with the ban of there was any evidence of nefarious data mining by TikTok. Outside of weird Internet rumors they only seem to collect basic user data and whatever you write in your profile.

[vortico]

A better analogy for this situation is banning skateboards, video games, or rock music made in China. If TikTok is banned, most teens would switch to an American platform. Their outlet for creativity is not reduced, just changed.

[glenstein]

>You might as well say that we gain nothing by banning skateboards, video games, or rock music.

I think apps are interchangeable in a way that tangle things are not. Vine was regarded as indispensable, until suddenly it was gone. And people miss it, but those creative energies have been channeled onto other platforms. Tiktok popped up practically out of nowhere. Now Triller is on the horizon, and who knows what after that.

>Outside of weird Internet rumors

Wowzwers, this does not even come within a country mile of accurate characterization. Tiktok is under investigation for censoring videos to satisfy the Chinese government, they have censored media related to Tiananmen square, have been flagged for 'severe' cybersecurity issues by a cybersecurity firm, and the app is now either restricted or being investigated by numerous countries including the US, India, Taiwan, and Australia.

[walki]

> The facts: we gain almost nothing by having tiktok around. We lose nothing by banning it, and gain a little bit of buffer against possible threats like election meddling, data mining for nefarious purposes and other things. Completely leaving politics aside, I basically support this.

What about if all non-US countries start reasoning like you and ban Youtube, Facebook, ...?

[vwat]

If country X believes that Facebook is being used as an intelligence or opinion-shaping tool by the United States government then country X would be justified in trying to do something about it, in my opinion. And the loss of Facebook and it’s toxic effect on its users wouldn’t make me lose any sleep if I was a citizen in country X. And I think this is probably true. I know in Myanmar Facebook is insanely popular and I personally knew people very high up in the government who used Facebook and their whole family did as well. I’m confident that Facebook could use their records to effect almost any kind of change imaginable in Myanmar. Their access is mind blowing. Maybe I’m being a bit hyperbolic but the point gets across.

[paganel]

As an EU citizen I hope the European Union (or the biggest governments that are part of it) will start seriously thinking about “nationalizing” the parts of Google and FB that operate in Europe, the same way MS is rumored to do with TikTok.

[AlchemistCamp]

China has been doing that for over a decade and I don't know of anyplace where WeChat is banned.

[pantalaimon]

China has also put dissident and unwanted people in 're-education' camps. Should we do that next?

[young_unixer]

> We lose nothing by banning it.

You lose freedom.

Would it be OK to also ban Burguers? They're unhealthy and you lose "nothing" by banning them.

[vortico]

A better analogy is banning burgers made by a specific company or country, and specific food is banned all the time by the FDA. Banning TikTok is not the same as banning all services similar to it. You do lose a bit of freedom by not having the choice to use a particular service, but this is much less loss of freedom than your analogy to ban a type of something.

[pantalaimon]

> we gain almost nothing by having tiktok around. We lose nothing by banning it

That's bold. There used to be a principle of freedom that allowed things not explicitly banned, and banning things would require a good reason.

Is this kind of capriciousness the new normal now?

[vwat]

You seem personally offended but I believe this is a good reason. We ban all kinds of things. So you think we shouldn’t ban guns? You think we shouldn’t ban any kind of speech, including doxxing and death threats? You think we shouldn’t ban cancerous chemicals? This is mental gymnastics at the Olympic level. Of course we ban things sometimes.

Banning a widespread intelligence gathering and opinion shaping tool of the Chinese government is completely reasonable.

[kqvamxurcagg]

I love China and Chinese culture but it would be extremely unfair for TikTok to be allowed to succeed when China bans all popular Western communication tools.

[xvector]

Wait, so we should turn ourselves into China? You actually want to mimic their authoritarian approach to media?

[xvector]

> We lose nothing by banning it,

Except, you know, our rights to the government not controlling our media.