[Buraksr]

I have heard rumors that AMD had a closer relationship with TSMC than NVIDIA. I have found that a bit weird as NVIDIA seems to move some higher margin silicon despite vague claims that NVIDIA is hard to work with. These rumors show NVIDIA either moving or being pushed to Samsung 8nm [0].

This article brings up the interesting point that AMD is spread thin trying to manufacture CPUs, APUs, GPUs, and has products for xbox and playstation both last and current gen. It paints it like a problem, and I would agree that predicting demand is challenging in the best of times. But maybe the diversity of the lineup is the real drive of TSMC partnering more closely with AMD; TSMC is even willing to make special variations of its process for AMD as seen in [1].

I think its clear why AMD wants to partner with TSMC, but I was always wondered whats the incentive the other way around that makes AMD attractive to TSMC.

One possible point is also mind-share as AMD has been getting many headlines but as TSMC is B2B, so I find that unlikely as TSMC's main value add from AMD over other manufacturers.

Foundries are expensive business, and TSMC likely wants big commits to make sure its bets pay off. TSMC only cares about what they are paid and NVIDIA likely isn't passing on much of its margin, so AMD's money is just as good. Except its not just AMD's money, its also Sony's and Microsoft's money. I would be shocked if there weren't minimum volume clauses in the contracts for making those console chips, custom silicon is expensive and AMD probably wants to have a guarantee it will break even. The TLDR is AMD can feel safer in making bigger commitments to fab time from its console agreements and product lineup, and TSMC can feel safer that this capacity will actually be used.

[0] - https://www.techpowerup.com/269347/nvidia-geforce-ampere-gpu... [1] - https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-zen-4-specific-5nm-enhanced-node...

[bluGill]

Tsmc needs to have customers for their products. In theory they could convince my company to build our chips with them (though I think we are happy with whatever process our current suppliers have which is probably in the 60nm range - obviously if I had insight into that side of the business I couldn't talk), but out column is only a few thousand chips a year. They would love to take our money, but they won't build a plant to make chips just for us. However if they think they can get AMD as a customer, that is enough to make a plant for as even worst case there will be enough volumn to pay off the loans (that is break even), and that lets them sell capacity to people like us who might be willing to pay a higher margin.

I would bet that Tsmc was courting amd for years. It is too expensive to build a foundry without some big customers committed. You can build a foundary for someone who won't order for a few years and you have to manage the risks of all the big customers (they might go bankrupt, they might never commit to...), so the more the better.