[jrockway]

Do partners in HFT firms function on the same level, as say the guy structuring CDOs at Bear Stearns?

Quant can mean a lot of things, just like "programmer" can. Your question is like asking, "do programmers work at Google, or do they write HR reporting systems for no-name companies?" They can do either and they'll still be called programmers.

[upgrayedd]

Ah, I see. I guess I'm just trying to flesh out the difference between all the terms I hear thrown around all the time that seem to overlap; day-trader, quant, HFT partner, etc. I see it's not as clear-cut as I thought. Thanks.

[jrockway]

Yes, those all overlap. I work for a department in an investment bank called "Quantitative Analytics and Research". We basically write software to move data from one system to another. The "quant" in there is just to sound important, not to actually mean anything.

In theory, "quants" develop models and "traders" use those models (combined with market data) to make trading decisions. But plenty of people called traders make their own models and plenty of people called quants press the button to make the trade.

(HFT, as I've seen it here, is basically people looking at graphs. But we are not known for electronic trading or anything.)

[upgrayedd]

Awesome, thanks for the great response. Curious if you're familiar with the common trend in the last half-decade~decade or so of Masters in Financial Engineering degree programs popping up.

Would you say spending the 150K+ and years needed to do well on the 7City exam to work as an "official quant" at famous investment banks is reasonable? There seems to be little hiring/demand for quants coming out of these programs, despite the as-of-now still high admission and graduation rates.

If the job description is as variable as you say it is, would it not make more sense to work on becoming a trader at a number of different banks, firms, and prop shops and not waste all the time and money on getting an MFE? It was popular pre-housing bubble and apparently job placement for graduates was high, yet I'm not sure this is the case is now. Could you comment on this, seeing as you're working there already?

[jrockway]

No idea. I'm a programmer who happens to work at an investment bank, but finance does not interest me any more or any less than any other programming problem. The words we use to describe things are finance-related, but the problems we solve aren't.

I would personally never pay $150k for a degree, but that's because the programming world doesn't care about degrees at all. I have never tried to be a quant so I don't really know. My guess is that if you come in as a programmer on a HFT team and interest the right people, you can be a quant without any particular credentials.

I'm told by my boss that many of the people in our application support team are "blown up" traders. Which means they were traders, and now they help people reset passwords, leading me to believe that there aren't many expensive degrees required to become a trader. That's all I know, though.

[nandemo]

The 7City quant course fee is around U$20k, not 150k!

I think before the 2008 crisis (I was going to say "Lehman shock" but I'm not sure if this is common outside Japan) it was considered a good deal: you could easily increase your value by more than $20k/year, especially if you were already working in finance. Now, I don't know. Although the surviving banks/funds started re-hiring, I don't think there's as much demand for quants now as there was in (say) 2007.

[upgrayedd]

Ah yes, that is true. The 150K figure is of the usual (ballpark) total cost of a Masters in Financial Engineering program.