[mc32]

The most productive workers barely scrape 50% productivity; however, idle, chat, socialization and other “wasteful” time isn’t wasted. You learn things about the needs of other groups, colleagues, the politics and all sorts of things you’d never pick up on working remotely.

[baron_harkonnen]

> all sorts of things you’d never pick up on working remotely.

When people say these things I seriously question if they've ever worked remote before. Yes if being remote makes you atypical for your workplace, then you'll probably be left out. But if you're working for a remote-first team the it's completely different. Nearly all of my closest coworkers I've met have been at remote companies.

I have had tons of interesting conversations, brainstorming session and just generally fun discussion while remote.

Honestly, I have personally found the amount of more toxic conversations also drops when remote. The problem with in-office socialization is that you have to socialize with people you might not particularly like (working with people you don't like is fine, but having to have conversations with them, go out for team drinks with them etc is another thing). This leads to generally more toxic behavior, since you have to put more energy into those social interactions.

[PragmaticPulp]

> The problem with in-office socialization is that you have to socialize with people you might not particularly like

This is actually a problem with remote companies.

It's really easy for teams to silo themselves away in private chat channels and form exclusionary cliques. It's fun for those in the inner circle, but it's miserable for newcomers and anyone else trying to get work done without being part of the in-group for a particular project.

Obviously the same dynamics can play out in a real office, too, but it happens much more frequently when it only takes a few clicks to make it happen. People are much more likely to be mean to each other when it's just a screen name on your computer rather than the real person you have to see every day.

[greedo]

How is this any different than office based companies? My team has multiple cliques; the coffee bros and the vape bros. The Windows admins and the *nix admins. The sports fans and the sportsball haters. The desk lunch people and the restaurant eaters. Some of these overlap, but not always.

Now that we're remote, it's much easier. None of the high school bullshit. If you're on a project, you're assigned work and have project team mates if you get blocked. With daily standups (even for non-programming roles), it's pretty easy to see who's struggling with a story, who might need some help, and who's rocking just fine.

[Polylactic_acid]

I have actually spoken more to my coworkers while remote than at the office where its one big open plan room where having a conversation will bother 20 other people.

[rightbyte]

Political power play doesn't work out as easily remotely. Social manipulations is harder. That is my observation.

[PragmaticPulp]

Interesting, because my pre-COVID experience managing remote teams was just the opposite.

The toxic people were much more likely to play politics or manipulate people when they were just a screen name in Slack than when it was Jim from down the hall with a wife and two kids. The office politicians were always hiding away in private Slack channels or even separate invite-only Discords that they created for the in-group to talk separately from the rest of the company.

In fact, one of the quickest ways to defuse politics and toxicities was to fly everyone to a location for a few days of meetings. The context didn't matter so much as just getting people in the same room.

It's the same phenomenon that drives people to be friendly and civil in person, but then tear each other apart on Facebook or Next Door. In person communication is more human.

[rightbyte]

Hmm strange ... I guess I was lucky or that it varies widely? Or maybe the effect I am noticing is eg. that is easier to ignore "office politics" when you literally can mute a meeting.

[oblio]

We're pretty much hardwired to react to other people, live. There are even studies for this.

Heck, even crossing the street is safer if you look the drivers in the eyes: https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/motr/safe-crossing...

Stereotyping, I know that HN is a bunch of introverts, but we were built for actual, face to face, human contact. That can't really be replaced with anything modern technology can offer us. Maybe in 10-20 years...

[foobiekr]

Where I work now is olympic-level politics, and .. I strongly disagree. If anything kingpins are more powerful in the current state of affairs.

[zwayhowder]

Would love to read any research that backs that number. (I'm not saying you're not right, I just like reading research papers).

[dijit]

This one says we are only productive about 40%, which is in-line with other stuff I've read:

https://www.inc.com/rebecca-hinds/new-research-says-workers-...

[PragmaticPulp]

That's not exactly what the study says.

The study claimed that people spend a lot of time doing "work about work", dealing with apps, and so on: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20191017005053/en/Asa...

The time spent on distractions and procrastination was around 1 hour per day:

> On average, the research shows that knowledge workers waste one hour and four minutes each day due to distractions and procrastination

So to be clear, people were working for more like 80% of their day, but not 100% of that time was considered core work or productive meetings.

People don't simply socialize and mess around on the internet for 50% of their work days at most companies. I've been at companies where people get away with that level of messing around, but I wouldn't say it's the norm.

[JackFr]

> On average, the research shows that knowledge workers waste one hour and four minutes.

Just minutes? No seconds? Garbage study.

[katbyte]

I'd rather spend that time on other things tbh

[phendrenad2]

Also some teams practice "watercooler-based development". Requirements and coding standards are passed by word-of-mouth. Being remote in an environment like that effectively means you're cut off from key knowledge required to do your job.

[ericmcer]

Also going by parents idea that completing a task is the end of your workday, any socialization is eating into your free time. The entire thing has added stress as you race towards completion each day

[throwaway894345]

I would be very interested to hear more about these claims if you can share a link.

[danny_sf45]

I agree that the socialization part is not actually "wasted" time and I would love to do it as much (or as little) as I want per week (ideally one or two days, instead of five days per week on a forced basis).