[GekkePrutser]

> We’ll see how the shipping ARM Macs are “fused” when they come out, but my guess is that they will be more locked down than these devices: their OS will be more permissive but you will not have meaningful kernel debugging.

My big worry is them dropping terminal access altogether like on iOS. That would really make the platform useless to me.

However I don't think they would do this at this point. There's many user groups (like cloud developers) specifically favouring Mac because of the strong terminal access.

[easton]

Craig specifically said that this wasn't going to happen, in one of the podcasts he said people came up to him internally and said "Wait. There's still Terminal, right?" and he said "Yeah, it's a Mac.". The Platforms State of the Union host also said that they had made contact with a bunch of open-source projects with assistance (and in some cases, iirc the OpenJDK and CPython, pull requests) on moving to ARM.

[GekkePrutser]

Thanks, I didn't know that. Good to hear!

[john_alan]

Yep. And Craig also said the Mac is staying open. And that he was sick of trying to convince people that!

[saagarjha]

There will be a terminal, and virtual machines, and kernel extensions. It's pretty much a "full" macOS experience to all but the most serious users.

[john_alan]

What’s missing?

[saagarjha]

Well, we don't know entirely yet. But based on the videos and what we know about DTK, patching the kernel is no longer something you can do for example. That's enforced in the silicon itself almost immediately after the computer comes out of reset, so even with arbitrary code injection into the kernel (extensions) you're not getting around it.